Many people are socially isolating themselves from the anti British bias of the Far Left BBC . And who can blame them ?
Long Weekend Thread 27 March 2020
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Respected around the world.
On sky news.
I’ve just seen the first realistic (IMO) item about the covid outbreak.
I think it was from a university or some medical organisation.
It compares the covid and flu deaths and gives some numbers which gives the situation some perspective.
It said about a half to two thirds of the deaths would have happened (this year) anyway, somewhat hastened by the virus.
They said this left in the region of 4-6 thousand deaths.
The same methodology for flu gave about 8 thousand deaths.
What I took from this is not the hundreds of thousands of deaths some predict but maybe a few thousand more than an average year. Perhaps it could compare with a bad flu year.
I’m sure it will be repeated so watch out for it and see what you think. A sensible rather than sensationalist short piece.
Of course it’s a nasty virus in some cases but nowhere near as bad as the Asian flu and Hong Kong flu outbreaks in the 50’s and 60’s which killed off 70 thousand in the UK.
I got a figure wrong.
It’s 6,667-10,000 excess deaths compared to 8,000 flu excess deaths.
Yes Emm, similar article by Peter Hitchens in the MoS. Apparently the death figures are distorted, and we’re being told that the virus are CAUSING deaths rather than being an add on symptom to the real cause of death, but the death certificates are being signed off with the Coronavirus for speed.
EG I’ll add something else “raw deaths” is a rubbish metric
.. all they do is act as a proxy for what the trend is.
Quality Adjusted Life Days lost is the standard metric
… cos that shows up the difference to society between the deaths of a lot of YOUNG and the deaths of a load of OLD-people suffering in pain with a few months to live
.. Spiegelhalter said on Radio4 that the average pre-existing lifespan of Covid19 dead is just 1 year since most already have a medical condition
So the loss to society is 1 life-year, but half that cos it is a bad quality year.
There are other losses to society to add in
In a batch of 100 patients
.. 40 don’t even notice
.. 52 get pig sick so lost 2 weeks off work ..that’s `104 weeks lost to society..ie 2 QALYs
..8 go into hospital .. that takes away NHS resources from other people .. say overall that costs 4 QALYs
..2 of those 8 die … and they died 1 year earlier than they naturally would have ..that is another 2 QALY’s
So from 100 cases society Covid removes… 8 QALYs
Now do you know the NHS cost limits on extending your life ?
Generally the NHS doesn’t have unlimited resources to keep you alive
Their current guideline is £35K/year
ie to save 8 Life years they will spend £280K
On that basis , current spending on Covid is massive
What about comparing it against other diseases ?
Flu is probably not going to kill many young people
It will kill some old people and cost a lot of hospital time
What about ebola … an outbreak of it would probably kill 80 out of 100 cases and many would be young.
So you’d get a massive tally of QALYs even before you add in hospital time losses.
Those 80 dead might be losing an average 50 life years each
… that would be 4,000 life years !!
Tonight’s Dad’s Army episode was ‘Man of Action’.
A land mine lands on the railway line at Walmington-on-Sea and there is damage to the gas and water supplies. This results in Mainwaring declaring a state of martial law and issuing the following edicts:
All looters will be shot on sight.
No water will be drunk unless it is first boiled.
No baths to be taken without a permit.
All rumour-mongers will be imprisoned.
All defeatists will be imprisoned.
Anybody not obeying military law will be imprisoned.
No more than five persons at any gathering.
According to the Religion of Hate, Cornavirus is allah’s ‘soldier’ for smiting infidels.
Better tell Auntie.
Tell that to the Iranians!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105 Source: JohnsHopkins
Iran – popn 82m approx – 35,000 Covid-19 cases
I think they’re the wrong sub-cult or something.
v
Crackpots_Type1 who “write” exactly one book.
Crackpots_Type2 who have only read the single work by Crackpots_Type1.
Crackpots_Type3 who cannot read and believe any old bollox Crackpots_Type2 tell them.
Result Islam, Marxism.
However, there must be something good about Marxism because, paradise on earth, North Korea, has zero cases of Coronavirus.
“The most terrible thing in the world is ignorance in action” Goethe.
For those who have been following it –
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52012242
Interesting …. beat New York to the draw – last I saw on this was an interim review was to be issued this evening at 18:00 EST
Australia: Earth’s Magical Kingdom, Series 1, Ocean – BBC 2
Shown tonight, narrated by Barry Humphries.
First time I have managed to watch a natural history program for many years.
No global warming. No climate porn. No mention of man made emissions. No ocean temperature rise. No sea level rise. No Great Barrier Reef bleaching. No Greta, and the best of all,,, no Attenborough.
Just excellent camera work and well narrated.
……. but will it catch on …. at the BBC … ?
I am just watching Talking Pictures on Virgin Media TV.
It’s a film from 1959 that the BBC would not show in a million
years. ” North West Frontier ” with Kenneth Moore as the gallant
Captain Scott trying to get a motley ensemble of characters
across the North West Frontier in India in a train being
attacked, by the local Taliban of the time just at the turn of the
20th century.
Lauren Bacall co-stars as the governess of a maharajah’s son
and is trying to escape with the little boy and save him from the
Taliban. Herbert Lom is the nasty Indonesian newspaper reporter . But actually is a latter day member of ISIL , who attempts to kill the young boy.
What is even worse so far as the BBC is concerned is that the star
of the show is Guptah the Indian train driver played
brilliantly by I.S Johar. Guptah is your ” It aint half hot mum”
stereotype .
This film is a ripping adventure yarn. I can imagine BIG BROTHER
from the diversity department of the BBC watching it and
having a fit ,and fainting !!
I have just finished Northwest Frontier on Talking Pictures, what a smashing film, I really enjoyed it.I also was thinking that it wouldn’t get a showing on BBC ha ha. Well worth watching when its next repeated on that channel.. Great Saturday night film.
That’s what is great about Talking Pictures, PC doesn’t enter their vocabulary. I think its owned by a chap and his daughter, and they’re doing the country a great service with their channel.
BRISSLES
Proper British films that show our proud history to our people on these fantastic islands .
We need the positive side of our history shown to our people for a change – And there’s is plenty of it.
The retard in the Derbyshire police who ordered this should be sacked.
In addition, I’m sure if a normal member of the public had done this they would have been arrested and charged with one or more offences. So are the cops going to face legal action?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8163209/Police-dump-black-dye-blue-lagoon-discourage-Instagram-selfies.html
What offences do you think have been committed John?
Pollution .
Hi Piku
Have you seen maxincony on your travels ?
Try dumping some of that stuff in the Brahmaputra and see what happens to you .
You really are as thick as mince, prick.
We could start with the Water Act 1989, 2003 and go from there.
Some of these police services now are a bleedin’ joke.
If there’s a gang of paedo’s gang raping an under age girl they’re nowhere to be seen.
But a couple of ramblers taking selfies in the countryside and they’re all over them.
Worse than fxxxing useless!
jic
“Never in the history of policing have there been so many fantastic tools to help us catch criminals”
Eg invent a new crime and arrest the “criminals”.
Or, when bored :-
Invent a non crime, encourage people to report this non crime. Then treat those guilty of the non-crime as criminals.
Time Common Purpose was listed as a terrorist organisation.
Along with the use of drones, notes and TV appearances, nail painting, rainbow coloured cars and hate crimes, persecution of TR, ignorance of grooming gangs, is it any wonder the old bill are detested in many parts of this country?
If one didn’t know better, one might think all of this is by design, that there was some sort of common purpose behind it. Almost as if the aim was to replace consensual policing with a politicised police force so alienated from the citizenry that it can perform the tasks that the state wanted in the Soviet Union and East Germany.
Ian,
Not much less, the plethora of legislation that literally pours out of the legislature. No doubt much, these days, that has been prompted solely by pressure groups and lobbyists and, in turn, well received and pursued by non-objective politicians.
Updated legislation? Now virtually unwieldy and designed to reduce the pressure on those who it was originally designed to hold to account. I’m just about to become familiar with the ‘New’ Consumer Protection Act 2015 and my initial reaction is, there’s many more layers of ‘ring running around’ than than ever before. Even before you get to the ‘meat’ (or perhaps mushy mince)
Environmental terrorism. Let’s hope the Harrabinger of Doom, Greta and the usual loonies are all over this.
The bellends in Derbyshire should be ashamed.
Police Farce.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053325
BBC do not think too carefully about whether people will actually read their articles or will just jump to the conclusion : Poor Brits – Wicked Government.
Ellie and three friends just a few weeks into three month backpacking holiday. Ellie is a care worker. So she left with friends on a hree month holiday when she knew about the virus and its possible spread? Four weeks ago, S. Korea had nearly 4,000 cases, Diamond Princess and Japan combined had nearly 1,000 cases and Singapore just over 100 cases. Ellie is on medication for depression (and travelling away from GP & pharmacy!) and her boyfriend has anxiety issues.
“She says the government’s response to the situation has been “awful”.”
Her response does not appear to have been too intelligent either.
“Freddie Collins, 26, and Claire Scrivener, 27, are junior doctors who work for a hospital in Croydon, south London.
They’re currently on a year out of training in Peru and were due to fly back to the UK on 18 March – but then the country went into lockdown. ”
Fair enough.
But I would ask, JDs in training, Covid-19 crisis running since early in January, would you not want to get back earlier to see 1. what you could do to help, and, 2. what you could learn as a JD in this situation?
Perhaps Al Beeb could fly them home ?
When this is under control.
Ban cruise ships over 500 pax. Breeding grounds/Petri dish experiments for communicable disease.
No travel unless valid health passport produced with all relevant vaccines and up to date checks for the region to which you are headed.
No young persons to travel unless they are over the age of 30. The kidults produced through our education system are not mentally able to cope with life experiences or apply common sense thinking until at least that age.
Ban Petri dish clichés too while we’re at it…
Breaking …………….German state finance minister found dead on rail tracks ?
Nowt on Al Beeb yet ?
This is Thomas Schaefer, the finance Minister of the State of Hesse. His death appears to have caught German media by surprise, so I reckon it will be some time before beeb reports anything other than the fact. No initial clues as to the ‘why’, it seems. No known financial irregularities, etc -simply a sensitive man; what got to him we await to find out.
The mysterious deaths of leading German politicians is not a new thing, and under Merkel the atmosphere has become a lot more toxic, since she interferes in the affairs of federal states (see Thuringia), an imposes her will on them, unconstitutionally of course.
The best thing that could happen in German politics is Merkel’s speedy departure to a place she is rumoured to have in Paraguay.
Still nowt on Al Beeb , perhaps their duty officer will pick it up from this site , when he wakes up ?
Clocks changed Taffman, I don’t except they’ve recalibrated the hive mind yet.
I think the racist far-left bbc are still in 1917 Russia time.
Haven’t heard that last bit before, the destination of choice for failed German socialists it would appear. That neck of the woods anyway.
Fnw,
Your last sentence: I would introduce the word, ‘hanging after, “speedy”.
Gosh, Anti-BBC vocalising IDS comments reference China, and how they are to blame for the situation.
The knives are out apparently.
I’ll believe it when I see it from the Tories. Based on recent events, my view is they would rather persecute law abiding citizens of the U.K. than control our borders, ensure there is a strategy and plan, backed up with equipment and resources to cope with an outbreak like this rather than create a broken economy and towns of automatons going out for nothing but queuing for bread like the USSR in the 1980s.
All backed up by and encouraged by the State broadcaster.
Looks like QT has its next guest expert lined up in our Bruce.
His title has ‘world’ in it, some more.
The BBC is also a big UN-fan.
Greta will be thrilled. She has a t shirt.
As Benjamin Franklin is reported as saying:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty not safety.
Said in a different time and context but the words are still valid today.
GW,
“Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming”. Absolutely! The Communists would simply deny it is happening and if you wished to pursue the issue and annoy them further, you get locked up or……disappear.
At this point, as we are all shut in, I’m tempted to put up a recipe for ‘Gulag Soup’. 😉
I wonder if anyone has thought of starting a Mexican wave while standing in a supermarket queue? It would pass the time, cheer up some people and give everyone a bit of exercise. They could give some variety to the routine with some hand clapping and cheering/howling at nothing in particular.
That would make the news headlines, surely.
Oh, and I’ve noticed we no longer stand in queues, we stand in line.
As we enter week two , being naturally vindictive and having a tendency to never forget , I was compiling a list of those for whom the end of the Chinese pandemic May be bad news –
China
The WHO / UN
The Reich EU
Italian /Spanish politicians(at the moment)
Profiteers
Mayor of Londonistan
BBC MSM
There may be a need for a longer list – which if they carry on being dumb – the British Police .
The inquiry into the UK planning and response will go the way of the Pakistani Paedo Rape Gang Report and those who decided not to plan for our plight following recent exercises ( 2016?) will not be held to account .
I know , of course , that the guilty are generally not punished in real life – and that the Court of Public Opinion – lacks real penalties .
But there will be some need for retribution.
I should add that I am highly qualified to make such a list because I have a PhD in Armchair Hindsight issued by the University of North Milton Keynes on Thames …
Sound post Fed.
During my WFH next week I shall be mailing something similar to my local MP, Conservative Home and Dominic Cummings. It most likely will be ignored and I’ll go on another list somewhere, but it will make me feel better.
Don’t tell him, Pike.
A Doctor of retrospective sofologly, thats impressive
I agree with Naga ( formerly known as Subha Nagalakshmi Munchetty-Chendriah)
Whats the point of you ? p?ss off our screens do us all a favour
Talk about ‘click-bait’! The ‘walk-off’ was the real ‘joke’.
I was hoping Carol had said something like “More rain, about as welcome as your screeching voice Naga”.
‘Raving’ is likely if listening to Radio 4.
Hahaha.
Radio 4 is part of the problem, not the solution dear ‘Em’
Sadly the beeb will try to make capital out of the current situation. We’ll hear more self-serving tosh about how invaluable their tv and radio programmes are during lockdown… informing… entertaining… uniting the nation… Blitz spirit… Dunkirk… Battle of Britain… there for you when needed… national treasure… hands off, Boris… oh and we’re upping the telly tax.
Because we’re worth it.
Flight Radar24 indicates a number of flights inbound to Heathrow and Gatwick from~
Nairobi
New York
Port Louis (where that?)
Istanbul
Madrid
A check of the planes tail number shows they are not cargo or freight.
Cmon Boris, before you send all households in the UK a letter advising of dire consequences if we don’t conform, how about making the country safe?
I said before the jury is out on Bojo, at the moment my own patience is running thin with this guy.
West – I like to monitor that too – especially when I ( was ) due to fly . Like this week
I don’t get how or why these flights are still operating . And the last time I arrived at T5 there wasn’t even a bottle of hand get . I thought the combo of 4 hours in a plane and then another hour on the tube would do for me .
There is a strange welfare state mentality which arises when some British go abroad – assuming that the government will look after them if there is a problem .
Apparently if you want to get back from NZ Emirates will do it for £40000 ( forty thousand ) and UK passport holders want an FCO flight . Same with Goa.
As for cruises – I’m guessing that’s a dead industry …
Heard an advert on the radio yesterday. Ferry to France. It may have prerecorded but really!
I’m at a loss to explain the airport thing. AntiBBC banging on about New York being the new centre of the pandemic but not a bloody mention of the flights from there carrying on everyday. Ridiculous.
West – I’ve taken another look at those flights . The Sky should be empty should nt it ? After all we are all about to get letters to ‘ stay indoors ‘ yet there are big planes doing overnight flights still coming in from New York …. 8? Hours stuck on a full up plane with no health checks and then into the general population of Londonistan and UK .
This really does deserve ‘ explaining ‘
According to The Sun article 3 days ago here
the ultimate responsibility over flights and travel will rest with the Foreign Office.
Perhaps Dom Raab should explain why he can’t control his ‘staff’. We know from their machinations since 2016 that the FCO mandarins cannot be trusted (ditto the Home Office).
Willie Walsh (was it?) was wringing his hands and weeping over the loss of business for his airline on air on BBC R4 about three weeks ago.
Surely an airline CEO could get together (via ‘phone or livelink) with someone at Minister level in Government and offer planes and crew to HMG at lo-cost (maybe no-cost – fuel only) to repatriate Brits abroad. Minister will need to kick F&CO mandarins into doing deals with Governments abroad to allow flights in.
There’s a funny whiff about some of this stuff, very much a lack of ‘can-do spirit’.
I wonder who is doing the blocking and foot dragging?
Fed – I thought so too. This vid explains a little by an actual pilot…..
Certainly some private recreational flying certainly going on over Kent.
Few days back, I heard a Merlin 🙂 and eventually spotted a Spitfire 🙂 🙂 heading north-west. Think it had the D-Day stripes on it & maybe based in Kent. A week prior I heard (possibly) a Merlin engine but could not see airplane by time I got outside to look.
Terrible video 12 minutes . The first 4 is an advert . The answer to the question why all the flights is basically so that airlines make money and pilots stay trained and airplanes need less maintenance .
Basically money
Nothing about hygiene . Nothing about whole passenger loads getting infected and carrying the Chinese bug .
Nothing about governments allowing this flying to carry on . I’ve had 8 flights cancelled . I understand why . The character in this awful video seems not to be aware of a pandemic .
Thanks for the breakdown , wasn’t going to watch all that
There was a time when people working for the MOD could apply for ‘an indulgence’ flight, paying the princely sum of £10. In theory these were the empty seats on flights moving the military around.
Anyone thinking of using these services was warned that the return flight might not be available and that rather than pay £10 to get back it would be a case of finding a one-way commercial flight at short notice. It was pointed out that those prices were nowhere like the cost of a return flight booked eight-months before as part of a package holiday!
Fed,
Heathrow? I will always remember coming back to the UK on a 2 week vacation via the new, palatial, Riyadh airport. Departing the UK the flight was delayed and I sat in a waiting area with rain streaming through the leaking roof which was caught by a free standing litter bin which someone had positioned under the leak………………..
G
As a regular traveller I’ve learn to factor in every single thing that can go wrong and provide hours of really boring anecdotes about stuff that has gone wrong …
I really would be interested in knowing what cleaning measures the likes of BA are using now – even pre pandemic the hygiene on airplanes was one of those subjects best not thought about
It’s a bit like the survival tips for the tube such as sitting on the ‘metro’ rather than the seat …. sometimes the seats are wet…..
Rob’s heart really is no longer in it.
BBC and mince. Thickness to a new level.
I’m hearing a lot about this Chloroquine and the excellent results it’s getting in France and the USA against the coronavirus.
See above for more info by other posters.
What I’m not hearing is anything about it from our lot.
Instead of asking about 10 questions in one go, giving the answerer the option of picking out which questions to answer, why don’t the likes of Eleanor Rigby ask why are we not using this drug which is already licensed for human use.
If we are using it why don’t they tell us as it seems to be having amazing results (again, see comments with links above on this page)
Are we waiting for other Countries to buy up all the stocks of Chloroquine before we do.
There’s a couple of other drugs having a good effect as well.
Where are we at regarding giving our sufferers these drugs which, looking at the results in France and the USA are already saving lives.
I’m sure if I was on the brink I’d want this drug and wouldn’t understand why it’s being withheld.
Or,
are we already using it?
If yes, why not tell us.
BBC too busy bashing Boris and Government to ask sensible questions like those, Emmanuel.
EG,
“I’m sure if I was on the brink I’d want this drug and wouldn’t understand why it’s being withheld.”
Just following the principle of letting thing follow their natural course.
Than ‘natural course’ entails a planned clear out of on susceptible generation. Can’t get in the way of that, can we?
Yes Emm, I have been prescribed Hydroxychloroquine for the last 6 years – taking it for an auto immune disease – Lupus / arthritis, so it has its benefits. The specialist nurse (over the phone as my appt had been cancelled) told me that there was a lot of excitement about this drug being looked at, as a possible intervention. I’m classified as high risk, so felt a bit cock a hoop, knowing that my medication may just be my saving grace.
I would say that, its not a drug you can take straight away, eye tests are imperative beforehand.
The problem will now be if stocks are vanishing, then my repeat prescription could be in jeopardy.
Who is on the very very diverse* Radio4 ?
* Beebspeak for having the same people on again and again
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52079922
This familiar and docile non-investigative governmental love-in has to end.
Like sheep, many applaud government policy. Glad to give up their freedom for hope, sold to them by the BBC and the same people who said ‘herd immunity is our goal’. People like Rishi Sunak who said only 18 days ago, ‘A 5th of the the workforce could be off work at any one time’. Look at the workforce today Rishi.
Rishi Sunak, the preferred stand in to Boris should he carp it. I would encourage you all to read his recent budget. It’s not even ‘chip paper’ now, yet it was described only 2 weeks ago as ‘bold’ and ‘audacious’ by the BBC. It’s laughable.
On the 11th March he waxed lyrical about inoculating the resilient British economy from Coronovirus, saying, “The British people may be worried, but they are not daunted”. He then went further, “this is likely to be temporary.” And predicted, “Up to a 5th of our working age population may be off work at any one time”. A reversal of austerity (to the tune of £60b) was then announced, que wry smiles on the faces of McDonnell and Corbyn. Endless promises to public service were made, pointless OBR forecasts and a fiscal open cheque book ensued.
Through the fawning, many, including me bowed our heads, shaking them vigorously. One did not need to be an epidemiologist to see the slow-motion car crash heading our way while the Chancellor counselled a street party. The budget was inexperienced, naïve and ignorant to the single challenge in 20ft neon lights. Coronovirus.
Just 12 days later Boris Johnson issued a national 3 week stay at home order and the budget was rendered pointless. A lockdown of the entire country was ordered. This meant most of the working age population of the UK was off work (not a 5th!). The state effectively criminalised non-essential travel outside the home, the government ended your freedom.
Despite warnings as early as January, the British response to this Virus has been lamentable. Beyond the budget backslapping, the macro-politics and direction of travel were obvious. Reports from, China, South Korea, Northern Italy and beyond paved a very obvious trajectory. It was ignored. The economy was prioritised.
Rather than be guided by the science, as the government repeatedly now claims, flights continued, and still continue, from infected countries, international travel arrived and it left. Our government did nothing. Contingency? No preliminary procurement of PPE or ventilators was done. No testing kits, antigen or antibody. Where was this in the budget? I argued this on here 2 weeks ago.
What we needed from Rishi Sunak on 11th March was a level of reality no one in government was prepared to take. In his words, he ‘inoculated’ the economy from Coronavirus. Well he failed. He, and wider Government, put the economy before people and prayed it wouldn’t ‘be all that bad’. It was. We will all now pay the price of that deliberate prioritisation. Had intervention been immediate we would be looking at a whole new reality.
So, who has the virus? We have no idea, given testing is a preserve reserved for celebrities and the rich. A month into this pandemic and we simply have no idea who has this virus, who has had the virus or indeed what the end game is.
Herd immunity was initially touted as one possible ‘get out’. This has now fallen away as conflicting experts cite no comparable examples with other coronovirus’. Also, we have the inevitable immunological wane the human body experiences with other pathogens, so basically herd immunity is and was always a fantasy. A vaccine is another possible ‘get out’, but this is 18 months away if ever. Therefore, enforced ‘social distancing’ is the only bottle left on the shelf, but at what cost?
The wheels are already coming off this policy in Italy, as families turn to crime for food or rail against the state, preferring the risk of infection over the cellblock of home. When summer comes to Europe, will millions be prevented from enjoying it by the state? Wow.
How long will social compliance remain in place when police film dog walkers by drone or scream at lone idlers in the street? What are the long term implication of social coherence when neighbour is encouraged by the police to rat on neighbour for the crime of stepping outside? Is government policy a goon with a megaphone?
When is the unknown mortality rate (somewhere between 0.5% and 10%) eclipsed by a higher one through poverty, crime or depreciation in mental health? Furthermore, what about endless money printing, the spectre of inflation and punitive taxes on the other side? Risk modelling will surely be underway to professionalise these obvious trade offs.
I, for one, think a blanket national lockdown policy is insane. There is no exit strategy. No guarantee it will ever work. No end point, and the cost is too great economically and socially. It’s policy by panic, hiding behind doctors and doors. It puts off the inevitable. Kicks the can down the road.
The BBC and other media outlets are simply parroting ‘the national effort’ or lauding the ‘stoic’ Mr Sunak, sending best wishes to Boris. It’s pathetic. At least Trump is honest. This cannot continue.
Well, you live and learn. I’d no idea Andrew Marr used the pseudonym ‘Venutius’.
Sorry you don’t agree Beltane. I hate the BBC and its metrosexual left bias but I also believe the Government prioritised the economy over the public when it mattered. They had one opportunity to act in early March and they dithered. It’s now too late.
I’ve spent 18 years working with mainly allergy/immunological medicine and I have zero confidence social distancing will work long term. You may reduce numbers ‘to cope’, but this only takes ‘pressure off the system’. A political decision arguably. Regardless, it will come back. Then what do you do? Lock people up again……?
One therefore, must ask. What’s the point, and what the hell were they doing in early March with that stupid budget?
I can only respect your direct knowledge, but equally I cannot see the point of negative analysis prophesying even more doom and gloom – what actual good can it do? Inspire riots?
Let’s leave that to the BBC, at least on this site.
An alternative view from which I quote a section:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8164141/DAN-HODGES-Fools-cheering-imprisonment-risk-unleashing-forces-deadlier-virus.html
But the past few days have seen the development of a new and potentially dangerous narrative. The idea the Prime Minister’s personal political ideology is unnecessarily putting the health and safety of the nation in jeopardy.
‘Johnson’s libertarian views behind hesitancy to lock down Britain’ was the headline in an article penned last week for the NBC news website.
In it his former mayoral adviser Guto Harri revealed: ‘He’s not some anarchist libertarian, but he does approach things on the basis that you really have to set the bar quite high to justify the state getting involved in people’s everyday lives. It’s not an absolute, but he does have to be persuaded that drastic measures are justified.’
A reluctance to invoke drastic legislation. A high bar for state suppression of the rights of the individual. This time last month these would have been unimpeachable attributes in any mainstream British leader. Actually, they would simply have represented a bench-mark for basic competence.
But to some people these are now the hallmarks of a 20th Century British Pétain, leading – or vacillating and appeasing – the United Kingdom towards destruction.
‘Confused, dangerous, flippant,’ goaded the Guardian, gleefully reporting ‘how the rest of the world pans the PM’s handling of coronavirus’. As an example, it quoted the Irish Times, and its barb ‘Boris Johnson is gambling with the health of his citizens’.
This is the point we have reached. Or been stampeded to. A moment in our history where reticence at turning one of the world’s leading democracies into a police state is derided as confused flippancy.
Anyone who sat through Boris’s announcement of a UK-wide ‘lockdown’ on Monday evening will have seen his critics are absolutely right. Each word he uttered did indeed cut across every fibre of his being.
And thank God for that. Thank God we do have a Prime Minister who agonises before locking his people into their own homes. Who defers and defers again until reluctantly ordering the forces of the State to descend on those having picnics, or playing football with their friends.
The fight against coronavirus is literally a life-and-death battle. It has to be waged with every means at the Government’s disposal. The measures outlined last week are a necessary evil.
But make no mistake, they are evil. And those cheering their own imprisonment, and attacking Boris for his perceived timidity, need to realise they are in danger of unleashing forces far more deadly than even the most lethal pandemic.
Just how much alacrity do we want our leaders to display when discarding our fundamental freedoms? Contrary to the narrative, Britain has introduced a nationwide lockdown earlier in the virus cycle than Italy.
Is it correct that the borders are still open while we are locked up, is Heathrow , Dover etc open to anyone?
I don’t understand why they don’t just encourage the vulnerable to isolate, and use the money to help them.
As soon as we re-open we are back to square one, this virus isn’t going away untill it mutates in a less deadly strain, and before that economic and social collapse may occur.
Ven
Do you think there will be a workable vaccine within a couple of months ? What is the likelihood of the Chinese bug mutation into something more fatal ?
Will the increasing light and temp affect it ?
My feeling is a vaccine is a long way off. 12-18 months at best. Some have touted hydroxychloroquine (anti malaria drug) as a possible treatment – There are some conspiracy stories around this in France.
Mutation is unlikely – Light, in particular, has a degrading effect on Coronavirus’ , heat, less so, but some. So, in theory, it may reduce in Summer, only to come back stronger in Winter (like flu).
Virus’ don’t like to kill their host, in a general sense, so there is some optimism to be had here.
Do you work for the BBC or would you like to be one of their journalists?
So the chancellor shouldn’t be bothered about the economy yet it is ‘the economy’ that produces the ventilators, food and vaccines that you think government should provide.
You also think the government should be ‘guided by the science’ yet in the next breath you tell us about ‘conflicting experts’, clearly ‘the science’ isn’t guiding them!
Government can only work with the tools that we have got and can the advice/laws that it comes up with can only cover the general case, we can’t afford to plan for and cover every contingency and provide personal services for every disabled back-packer who manages to get themselves stuck in the jungle of Bongo-bongo.
The real lesson for all governments is that mass migration, including tourism, wasn’t a good idea. Strangely most of the BBC’s nature and farming programmes have been saying the same thing for decades, but only when it comes to plants and animals!
From the scale of response so far JimS we appear to be pissing into the wind.
It’s quite enough to inspire an even more than normally acute loss of will to live, so I think I’ll just give up and leave the stage open for others who evidently think that being negative is positive.
Bye all.
jimS
I wouldn’t work for the BBC for all the tea in China. Pardon the pun.
I am saying Boris dithered early March. The science was clear then. He did not act. The following Sunak budget was a kind of ‘lets keep our fingers crossed’ and ignore reality, budget. Deliberate? I’ve no idea.
I’m not saying the government is not following the science now, only that a window of opportunity has now closed.
I am also saying the media and the BBC are not scrutinising policy enough for me. It’s a kind of sickly love-in. These are massive decisions and many people are simply rolling over and accepting them.
Why are passenger trains from Paris still arriving into London? Why is a couple I personally know flying today into Heathrow with no checks or quarantine from Thailand (holiday), yet the police are chasing dog walkers. It’s crazy.
I’m also saying there is an economic trade off versus medical advice. Trump is saying this too.
On mass immigration I completely agree.
On the positive side – As I’ve mentioned, virus’ don’t generally like to kill their host, only take, replicate and move on.
Also, on the positive side; mass testing is a must. If we do this we can get a handle on who and where. Then we can shut down and isolate more strategically. Treat and move on.
jimS
I wouldn’t work for the BBC for all the tea in China. Pardon the pun.
I am saying Boris dithered early March. The science was clear then. He did not act. The following Sunak budget was a kind of ‘lets keep our fingers crossed’ and ignore reality, budget. Deliberate? I’ve no idea.
I’m not saying the government is not following the science now, only that a window of opportunity has now closed.
I am also saying the media and the BBC are not scrutinising policy enough for me. It’s a kind of sickly love-in. These are massive decisions and many people are simply rolling over and accepting them.
Why are passenger trains from Paris still arriving into London? Why is a couple I personally know flying today into Heathrow with no checks or quarantine from Thailand (holiday), yet the police are chasing dog walkers. It’s crazy.
I’m also saying there is an economic trade off versus medical advice. Trump is saying this too.
On mass immigration I completely agree.
On the positive side – As I’ve mentioned, virus’ don’t generally like to kill their host, only take, replicate and move on.
Also, on the positive side; mass testing is a must. If we do this we can get a handle on who and where. Then we can shut down and isolate more strategically. Treat and move on.
jimS
I wouldn’t work for the BBC for all the tea in China. Pardon the pun.
I am saying Boris dithered early March. The science was clear then. He did not act. The following Sunak budget was a kind of ‘lets keep our fingers crossed’ and ignore reality, budget. Deliberate? I’ve no idea.
I’m not saying the government is not following the science now, only that a window of opportunity has now closed.
I am also saying the media and the BBC are not scrutinising policy enough for me. It’s a kind of sickly love-in. These are massive decisions and many people are simply rolling over and accepting them.
Why are passenger trains from Paris still arriving into London? Why is a couple I personally know flying today into Heathrow with no checks or quarantine from Thailand (holiday), yet the police are chasing dog walkers. It’s crazy.
I’m also saying there is an economic trade off versus medical advice. Trump is saying this too.
On mass immigration I completely agree.
On the positive side – As I’ve mentioned, virus’ don’t generally like to kill their host, only take, replicate and move on.
Also, on the positive side; mass testing is a must. If we do this we can get a handle on who and where. Then we can shut down and isolate more strategically. Treat and move on.
jimS
I wouldn’t work for the BBC for all the tea in China. Pardon the pun.
I am saying Boris dithered early March. The science was clear then. He did not act. The following Sunak budget was a kind of ‘lets keep our fingers crossed’ and ignore reality, budget. Deliberate? I’ve no idea.
I’m not saying the government is not following the science now, only that a window of opportunity has now closed.
I am also saying the media and the BBC are not scrutinising policy enough for me. It’s a kind of sickly love-in. These are massive decisions and many people are simply rolling over and accepting them.
Why are passenger trains from Paris still arriving into London? Why is a couple I personally know flying today into Heathrow with no checks or quarantine from Thailand (holiday), yet the police are chasing dog walkers. It’s crazy.
I’m also saying there is an economic trade off versus medical advice. Trump is saying this too.
On mass immigration I completely agree.
On the positive side – As I’ve mentioned, virus’ don’t generally like to kill their host, only take, replicate and move on.
Also, on the positive side; mass testing is a must. If we do this we can get a handle on who and where. Then we can shut down and isolate more strategically. Treat and move on.
Venutius,
“I would encourage you all to read his recent budget. It’s not even ‘chip paper’ now, yet it was described only 2 weeks ago as ‘bold’ and ‘audacious’ by the BBC.”
If you were Sunak in the long beforehand planned inevitable close-down, wouldn’t you create a fake give-away budget in the knowledge that weeks ahead it was to be totally undermined by events? ‘Don’t blame me’ I can hear Sunak say.
I like your thinking!
Zainab Baidawi talking about her cousin dying
“It had taken just 12 days for Adil to go from a seemingly fit and capable doctor working in a busy Birmingham hospital to lying in a hospital morgue.”
She went on and on yet never mentioned his age except for mentioning a receding hairline.
..Adil El Tayar, 63
He wasn’t young then.
Yes, sad to lose a Doc (as well as family member at this time) but were there any mentions of underlying conditions, had he been or was he a smoker, etc.?
It’s always a temptation for the media to look at deaths but it is infections and infection rates that are key. Death due to Covid (and which coronoavirus – there are others) could be due to other conditions/weaknesses.
I wonder at what point stress becomes an underlying condition?
Working too many hours for doctors , or worrying yourself sick about income for many or simply being trapped indoors not getting enough sunshine, or social interaction.
Not old either.
I’m hoping someone here can help clarify this for me.
Some of you are very good with stat’s and figures, unfortunately I’m not…
The mortality figures regarding Coronavirus are becoming astronomical, particularly in Italy and Spain.
However, my question is, are all these people dying “from” the disease or are they dying “with” the disease.
Do you see the subtle difference?
In Britain, during the winter of 2017/18 I’ve read that 21,000 people died from influenza. But up to 50,000 died with influenza and other conditions.
I’m trying to avoid the endless toll of misery on the BBC and listening to Nigel on LBC. He’s just mentioned the recent mortality figures in southern Europe and said (paraphrasing) “These people died from Coronavirus…or at least they had it when they died.” You see, they’re not necessarily the same thing…
The mortality figures are bound to escalate. More people will get the virus. They will be found to have the virus when they die. But it may not have been the virus that killed them.
I don’t think we’ll be able to get a proper handle on this until it’s over and we can then look at the statistics and calmly assess them.
I’m not trying to make light of this ghastly malaise at all. I’m just trying to understand its potential impact.
Consider the deaths from flu in the US this year….
‘This season CDC estimates that, as of mid-March, between 29,000 and 59,000 have died due to influenza illnesses.’
And yet where is the mass panic and sensationalist media comment? Why is it all about the 2,229 who have died from/with coronavirus?
Jeff, “However, my question is, are all these people dying “from” the disease or are they dying “with” the disease.
Do you see the subtle difference?”
Yes, quite so. Impossible to say without sight of autopsy report/death cert/medical records. Hence my inclination to look at infections. Even this is fraught because people may be having normal ‘flu’ (or one of the later variants, possibly?) or a very heavy cold but assuming: ‘Eeeek! I’ve got Covid-19!!’
Then the tests. How accurate are they? Are there any masking complications that affect testing & accuracy etc., etc..? It is not easy for medical profession or scientists and big pharma hunting for a vaccine.
@Jeff The UK official stats make it clear
They are a WITH Covid19 death tally
..not a FROM Covid19
AFNeil says the German stats are a FROM Covid19 death tally
and that is why they are much lower
Nothing to do with bbbc.
I have a question and wonder if any of you on here might have an answer.
My NatWest debitcard expires next month and I’ve been trying to find out if the card replacement procedure is working as normal during these strange days where all sorts of businesses are temporarily shutting down.
The web site has a help page but will not recognise my question no matter how I phrase it.
I’m quite sure the replacement will appear soon but does anyone have any info.
Maybe others have issues with passports, driving licences, bus passes and the like. Will they be affected?
Emmanuel, have you tried requesting a replacement card? Y’know on the ‘My dog ate my
homeworkcard’ or ‘My wife cut up my card’ or ‘I dropped it behind the car, and drove over it’ basis, ie. damage.No idea ,I just know that these days the cards arrive at the very last minute, unlike last year when they were sent out a few weeks early
Maybe it’s all ok.
It’s just that in the last week or so my Vets told me they were still operating each day and then, the next day they closed for all but essential business so no booster vaccines for example.
Then, my car was booked in for a service on the Thursday. I phoned a few days beforehand and they said it was all going ahead. I then phoned a couple of days before just to make sure and someone answered the phone to say they were closing until further notice and that I should have an email telling me this. I didn’t have an email (and still haven’t received one) only the original confirming the servicing.
My library books were due back and as it’s a half hour journey I phoned the council to make sure the library was still open (this was last week before lockdown)
They said it was closed (so good job I didn’t go)
It crossed my mind that maybe the people who make the cards might be shut down and that’s why I asked.
EG – I’ve had two new cards delivered in the last 10 days … I tend to lose them or wash them these days so asked for replacements . Apparently we need to be careful with envelopes and the like due to the bug being able to live on it for a while
Also just send be all your back details and I’ll be glad to help out – don’t forget the PIN .. you’ve won a prize in the Nigerian state lottery and I will get the money for you for a small ‘ fee’ .
Careful now ….
So CoronaCorbyn has a nice interview with Kuenssberg in which he claims he was right all along, the government’s reaction to the Coronavirus has ‘vindictated’ him and his policies.
So…he is saying his government would have been like a deadly plague upon the country and the result of his government would be mass deaths, the internment of the population, thuggish police roaming the streets, some wanting to use baton rounds and tasers on corona-criminals, the destruction of the economy, ruination of thousands of businesses and millions unemployed as well as schools shut, lives put on hold, the future of children blighted not just from their interrupted education but the fact that taxes will have to rise massively and the bill for all this largesse will have to be paid for by them for decades to come….not forgetting such massive spending spells the rapid diminuition of the NHS, welfare and all public services when this is over as there is ‘no money left’ to pay for what we have now let alone the planned improvements.
Corbyn wants such spending not as the reaction to a one-off crisis but as a year in, year out policy…he would spend, spend, spend with completely reckless abandon, not to mention a similarly draconian government crackdown on public freedoms….Jews, journalists and Tories would all be on the list.
The BBC however notices none of this as it gives CoronaCorbyn a glowing write up which pretty much peddles his views unquestioningly…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52048213
Kuenssberg’s own write-up is slightly less glowing but still hands CoronaCorbyn the victory he claims…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52056914
It’s amazing how Labour seem to manage to misread the mood of the nation on every single issue.
Boris approval rating flying high and voting intention poll shows Conservative party riding high and the lefties losing ground.
So, a great time to post this ????? What a plank.
CCBGB !!!!!
Apropos, I suppose, of us all being stuck on our own little desert island at the moment, I found myself suddenly thinking about Desert Island Discs which I used to listen to often in the good old days when Radio 4 represented civilised listening. Old-timers on here will remember the format: the guest (“castaway”) was invited to play the eight records (records forsooth!! What are they?) he or she would most like to take to a desert island.
What I was wondering was this: at the end of the programme the castaway was invited to state which one luxury they would take and which one book. The Bible and the Complete Works of Shakespeare were already there.
Does anyone who has listened to the programme, whether by accident or design, in recent times, know whether this provision still holds good? Or have the Bible and Shakespeare been replaced by something more in tune with our enlightened times – the complete works of Jeanette Winterson, for example?
I’m afraid you’re right, Skeldings.
Desert Island Discs still offer their guests the The Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, however…
Some of the recent, progressive types, clearly aren’t too happy with the traditional Anglo-centric, male hierarchical stuff.
Perhaps they like to be different and to shock us simple everyday licence fee payers.
Some have chosen The Koran and Harry Potter…
Maybe, just maybe this can go some way towards explaining those with “no underlying health conditions” dying with this virus:
Have a look at the bleeding SIZE OF HER no health conditions ?? morbidly obese at the least
Mother, 65, with no underlying health problems dies from coronavirus and her NHS worker daughter is desperately ill after they attended funeral where 17 mourners caught the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164743/Mother-65-no-underlying-health-problems-dies-coronavirus.html
Daily mail accept out cookies or else loaded before her photo…
Lock-down a good idea?
https://motls.blogspot.com/2020/03/lockdowns-may-increase-viral-doses.html
An elderly relative tells me it’s such a shame about those poor ‘Brits’ stuck overseas and that we ought to bring them home.
Which I take to mean he has been suckered into this outlook by the BBC news to which he subjects himself.
If we’ve an all but essential rule for the lockdown internally then why not shut the borders?
Apparently, the racist far-left bbc agent, Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe, has been released from prison to, I think, house arrest with her parents, because of the virus situation.
Has the hive mentioned this? Are they going to open the prosecco bottles to celebrate?
I am “stuck” in Texas and am really enjoying it: spring flowers, swallows and hummingbirds, swimming in the river, endless space to wander about it, no drones watching the car parks or Stasi asking if my journey is essential.
Is this the new Big Brother technique from the BBC/Guardian
.. put out a compelling narrative, then after a couple of days REMOVE it ??
Click on the tweet and you’ll find “Removed: article”
Second example
#2 Guardian put out an article
saying ‘look young people CAN DIE here is Chloe Middleton the 21yo that died from Covid’
Then Friday they put out an article debunking themselves
saying the original article had come from copying ‘an aunts claim on Facebook’
#3 “Chloe Middleton: death of 21-year-old NOT recorded as Covid-19”
https://web.archive.org/web/20200328030235/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/chloe-middleton-death-21-year-old-not-recorded-nhs-covid-19-related
they replaced #2 with “Removed: article”
… but then on Saturday night they replaced the new article with
“This article was removed on 28 March 2020 pending review.”
GWF if you edit your post
and just paste in this link https://twitter.com/DawkinsReturns/status/1243890915317612545
The tech here will auto-embed the tweet video
Cops are enforcing the keep your distance rule. Churches and mosques closed. Members of the BBC’s favourite faith engage in collective prayer in a tennis court observing the two metre rule for each row of worshippers.
Is it a verified that the video is not Old ? dunno
Jack Dawkins account has a few such videos
Can he be dismissed as a racist troll ?
No, cos he’s also tweeting support of boxer Amir Khan offering his building to the NHS
BTW R4 prog 7:10am today said that in some areas crematorium funerals and some Muslim funerals are going on as normal.
(surprising but I heard it myself)
I think I’m going to sneak out the ‘Start the Week” thread while no one is looking … and anyway … what is a ‘week’ now ?
I see the #FakeNews Independent made a big claim on March 19
People tweeted the quote
BUT BUT the article was later edited and those words removed
Big Brother rewriting history again
I’ll this one here even though the thread has FINISHED
… Reminder : the claim about Muslim deaths was removed .. so take the tweet as fact.