401 Responses to Start the Week Thread 23 March 2020

  1. Beltane says:

    In the hope that I am first I would like to donate the prestigious position to Maxi, in the expectation that it will induce even more frustration than his normal lifestyle.

       30 likes

  2. Deborah says:

    And I wanted to thank everyone who supported me after Maxi’s usual trolling.

       46 likes

  3. The WestWyvern says:

    Keep going Deb, don’t let the deluded ranting of a weapons grade bellend skilled only in cut and paste techniques get you down.
    If you really want a bad listen tune into radio 5 dead, good week bad week. They have just spent the last 30mins berating and slagging off Boris and the government.
    They also seem to wonder why the population have been ignoring the message not to socialise as they have been banging on about it all day.
    Now I have a couple of theories that I text into them,1. The majority of youngsters and the uneducated are just ignorant and ignoring it, as it won’t happen to them, and they are all that matters. and 2. Not many people actually listen to or pay attention to the ‘nations most trusted’.

       56 likes

  4. quisquose says:

    Countryside Bingo … Brexit, Trump, Climate Change, Chlorinated Chicken … HOUSE!

    This is getting boring now. It’s a full house every week.

       50 likes

  5. The WestWyvern says:

    A quick look at flight radar24 indicates recent arrivals or about to arrive at Heathrow and Gatwick from:
    Doha, Singapore, Frankfurt, Berlin and Madrid.

    Easterly winds in the Southern North-Sea and Channel are also favourable for the French dinghies wanting to make the crossing.

    When will the Anti-Beeb devote as much time to these issues rather than searching out every lefty healthcare professional they can find to eulogise about the lack of PPE

       66 likes

  6. Fedup2 says:

    West
    If the number of cases and fatalities are going to rise in the way that the government is saying – it may well be that the feral tribes of ( inner ) city types will be shaken out of their complacency / selfishness .

    Coupled with that is the consequence of people having to be in close proximity – such as those using public transport as well as ( crowded ) supermarkets …

    Watching the BoJo press conference – I wonder if they should take questions . The MSM seems to be demanding that draconian steps be taken now – more than those in Schedule 20 of the Chinese Virus Act being passed on Monday .

    They are trying to box their enemy – the brexit Tory government in – get more draconian measures – which are ignored and not enforced – and then tell BoJo that anarchy now rules and the Government doesn’t .

    This all depends – of course – on the actual effect of the Chinese virus – and whether the BBC lands up filming lines of coffins outside NHS hospitals – some of which are likely to have NHS staff inside them ….

       45 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      I listened today Fed, I did feel Boris waffles a lot when he really should be precise and to the point, but it seemed like every journalist there is thick as mince as they all keep asking the same question.
      I think the army should be employed to deal with the potential for large scale coffin disposal. The site of burning pyres ala the Foot and Mouth disease years back will prove too much for some of our ‘journalists’
      A glimmer of good news, Italy deaths lower today and rate of infections slowed.

         35 likes

      • Fedup2 says:

        It’s strange that both BoJo and POTUS are doing press conferences to a highly hostile press which is only looking to undermine them as opposed to doing a public service .
        And , of course, we are only in the first 5 minutes of a 90 minute game …..

           48 likes

      • richard D says:

        Hmmm – and the Sky reporter tonight asked 7 questions, I think, directed across all of the government representatives –
        and if you add in the BBC multiple questioner, then not many more press representatives get a look in. This is a trick which has grown when employed by some of the US mainstream media to squeeze out any real discussion of some of the issues facing America that do not appear on their agendas.

        The press should be told that they will only be allowed one question, to one government representative, to make room for some other publications for a change – who knows – that might actually initiate some cogent discussion for a change, instead of having to fend off the ‘gotcha-merchants’ at the Beeb and Sky.

           45 likes

        • Fedup2 says:

          Richard
          The conferences are starting to turn into ‘you said that but he said this’ or ‘ you say that today but yesterday you said this ‘

          Which is going to achieve ‘what ?’ BoJo s media advisor might deserve another job .

             24 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          richard, I would love an opportunity to get a virologist of some standing in front of a microphone – have a shed load of questions.

             20 likes

  7. The WestWyvern says:

    Cracking BBC bias by omission on Friday. Local News, Regions, South West.
    ‘Retired Council Leader charged with Child Abuse’….. retired former South Somerset Council Leader Rick Pallister has been charged with..

    Now Rick was/is a Lib Dem. Not that you would know from the report.

    Imagine if he’d been a Tory. I reakon they’d have found at least one slot in amongst the Chinese Corona Virus hysteria to mention it.

       45 likes

  8. Terminal Moraine says:

    So parks are about to be closed, curfews are nearly here… when are we going to be asked to snitch on neighbours for unauthorised excursions in our designated civic zones?

    You can’t go for a bike ride in France. Canada may invoke an Emergencies Act which would give the government powers to take over property and prohibit public travel and gatherings. Meanwhile flights are still arriving in the UK from Iran, China and Italy, and the Tube is still running.

    “The data collected so far on how many people are infected and how the epidemic is evolving are utterly unreliable. Given the limited testing to date, some deaths and probably the vast majority of infections due to SARS-CoV-2 are being missed. We don’t know if we are failing to capture infections by a factor of three or 300 […] Reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%. That huge range markedly affects how severe the pandemic is and what should be done. A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05% is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.”

    — John Ioannidis, Professor of medicine, epidemiology and population health and biomedical data science / Stanford University

    Vaccine trials are to start at Porton Down.

    Anyone know what’s going on?

       30 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      Fk, you know who John Ioannidis is don’t you ?
      A highly respected scientist for his seminal paper Why Most Published Research Findings Are False.’

      The fact was that 50+% of medical research papers could not be replicated

      epidemiologist and statistician John Ioannidis argues that we lack good data on many aspects of the Covid-19 epidemic, and seems to suggest that we should not take drastic actions to curtail the spread of the virus until the data are more certain
      March 17
      https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

      He will publish a proper paper on this soon

         24 likes

      • The WestWyvern says:

        It’s against Boris’s DNA and his liberal tendencies to lock down the streets.

           13 likes

      • Terminal Moraine says:

        Stew, yep. I think he said 90% of published medical research was flawed, if memory serves. And governments are implementing lockdown for ‘health’ reasons

           13 likes

      • Fedup2 says:

        I’m irrationally and uncharacteristically optimistic about the time by which a vaccine is produced ; every country with a research facility will be busting a nut to get there first .

        It’s the same with the efforts going into developing and producing ventilators .

           24 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          Fed, the great thing about free (well, controlled) markets as opposed to the Left/Socialist/Communist/Fascist alternative.

          Competition.

             15 likes

        • Van Helsing says:

          I’m also fairly optimistic, Fed.

          Not only will we have a vaccine (more likely several) but effective treatments (which should arrive sooner) are in the pipeline.

          The mortality figures look horrific but the probability is that COVID-19 is rather less deadly than those figures suggest. It’s quite possible, even probable, that the true rate is under 0.5% – not great, but a heck of a lot better than the media would have us believe.

          And then there’s the weather. Longer, hotter, sunnier days should help to reduce the transmission rate and will bolster our immune systems.

          That’s all coming, but in the meantime we should follow the advice dispensed by HMG.

          Stay safe, stay healthy, stay alive. The cavalry is on the way.

             26 likes

          • Up2snuff says:

            I was interested that the PM mentioned ‘the next five days’ as it coincided with my expectation of a peak being possibly flattened.

            I, too, am fairly optimistic. Watch and pray.

               5 likes

          • The Sage says:

            So not so different from regular winter flu, which has killed up 28,000 in the UK in a single year during the last decade.
            Or broadly in line with H1N1;
            “The 2009 swine flu pandemic was caused by a new strain of H1N1 that originated in Mexico in the spring of 2009 before spreading to the rest of the world. In one year, the virus infected as many as 1.4 billion people across the globe and killed between 151,700 and 575,400 people, according to the CDC.”

               6 likes

        • StewGreen says:

          and there is a return comment
          John Ioannidis asked me to post this response to @mlipsitch- Dear Marc,
          I have tremendous respect for you and your work, and I am grateful for the immense effort you have put on this important issue at these difficult and uncertain times.
          However, calling my piece silly and chastising STAT for publishing a howler does not help.
          My main plea is for better data. I will not espouse any single point in the wide range of estimates as an “expert”, in all my life I have avoided showing off as an expert, and I continuously get reminded about how little I know. I agree this is a crisis and we need to respond urgently and to consider also the worst scenario. But we are making monumental, unprecedented decisions with unknown outcomes.
          I am not saying aggressive measures are wrong right now, but we need to collect urgently unbiased data for informing the next step.
          We have no clue what the most aggressive measures might cause if we have to maintain them not just for 2 weeks or a month, but for many months, if not years. Without data we are totally blind.

          Can we please avoid insults and focus on the science?

          Keep up the great work!
          Best wishes
          John

             18 likes

      • Thoughtful says:

        The big issue is that we KNOW years of mass migration and no extra spending on the NHS means no spare capacity.

        Corona virus requires intensive care and they were at capacity before it even began. Other countries have used defunct army / airforce bases as medical centres, we are stupidly trying to use ordinary hospitals.

        What the so called medical ‘experts’ are attempting to do, is to flatten the bell curve so peak demand is lowered, and that’s about it.

        If 20 000 people require intensive care it’s clearly not going to happen, but if 10 000 over a longer period do, then it might be more managable.

           21 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      Merkel is in isolation and being tested. Rejoice, rejoice.
      Germany has also just announced gatherings of more than 2persons to be banned.
      I have work colleagues in Northern Italy – it’s bad but we also need to understand the social and cultural reasons why it’s spread there so badly, amongst a very elderly population that live in larger extended family groups, the preposition to gather socially and hug and kiss a greeting, the passion for smoking and the fact that all markets are being only being closed from this weekend, in the smaller towns all the residents visit markets daily for their fresh produce. A massive way to spread the virus. Also having lived and worked there, the healthcare system is not world class, it’s good for sure but tends more to be based on prevention rather than cure.

         37 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      TM, that’s London Parks that are closing. National Trust announced today that their properties (houses) would close but the grounds would be open at no cost for people to walk in fresh air but UPDATE that changed just after midday. Now the NT parks are closed. 🙁

         22 likes

      • Terminal Moraine says:

        Up2, the Ministry of Sport in France has said all outdoor exercise to take place no more than 2km from your home. How could you enforce such a rule?

        Unless in some hypothetical future scenario the government had access to everyone’s GPS data from their phones and could inflict fines accordingly.

        Hypothetical or…?

           13 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          TM, yes, Beeboid has just reported on that from Italy on Monday TOADY. He went for a run and was told by a policeman that he had to remain within 200m or 300m (think it was the latter) from home.

          France went for a lock-down, iirc, last week because I think Macron wanted an end to the Gilet Jaune protests after his unhappy election first round. I think I heard – on the BBC – that that didn’t work and the GJs were out again this weekend past.

          It is obviously going to be a fast moving situation with a lot of panic in media & Governments and changes by the day or hour, eg. that National Trust open/closed thing.

             11 likes

    • Dave S says:

      Not really. If it is of any interest I fell ill mid January with as nasty a virus as I have ever had. since childhood. Isolated myself by necessity as i was crooked. Took 4 weeks to get over it. Now fine. Only went to the doctor when it was over to check I was OK. Funny thing he seemed to not want to discuss it.
      This virus could have been around much longer. Not saying I had it but I had something very nasty. Italy seems to be in a different state to any other country. What exactly is going on there? Garment workers from China? Who knows.
      WE must hold China responsible for this. Not the people but their lousy government. It has devastated our world and there must be a reckoning.
      The media here is lacking in curiosity and prefers to play the blame card.

         48 likes

      • Fedup2 says:

        Dave S -.glad to hear you beat what you had . I’m prone too and had an interesting dose a while ago.

        How is China going to make reparations ?
        Remember when they were being lauded for building a hospital in half a day ? Seems pretty meaningless now .

        Maybe China will be one big PPI claim

           28 likes

      • Van Helsing says:

        Dave, I think it is quite possible that COVID-19 has been here since last year.

        I posted previously about one of my wife’s work colleagues returning from a business trip to Wuhan last November and thereafter spreading a bug with symptoms identical to Covid-19 at his workplace, thereby infecting both my wife and me along with several others. My wife was particularly badly affected – it took her four weeks to get over it, and a bit longer for her sense of taste to return.

        I’ve since heard of other cases from late last year that also fit the description of COVID-19. Perhaps possible UK cases from 2019 can be investigated when the antibody test kits become available in sufficient numbers to enable non-priority testing to be undertaken.

           17 likes

  9. Thoughtful says:

    One thing sparking another I find it difficult to believe that the cowardly useless incompetent Tories can close the parks, shops, ban the ‘vulnerable’ from going out for 12 weeks, yet flights are still being allowed in from hot spot countries such as Iran and Italy without any checks at the airport what so ever !

       50 likes

  10. Terminal Moraine says:

    Still, the BBC are right on the button with all the quarantine info everyone needs to know

    a3y6GZZ.png

       32 likes

  11. Up2snuff says:

    Good news from Kent. Only 3 cases today but this rider ‘Note: Not all those with the virus will have been tested’ has appeared underneath and that applies to other locations I searched for.

    However, 21 > 32 > 45 > 48 over four days is something to be thankful for even with a qualification.

    Just had a wander along the Costa Geriatrica with the Covid Checker. Not a lot of cases along the south coast of England but still subject to that qualification above: not all tested.

       17 likes

  12. Up2snuff says:

    I was interested in something I heard via BBC R4 7 a.m. news this morning but I do not recall being repeated in the 8 a.m. bulletin. The PM has said five days from now will be critical. That is Thursday. That’s an interesting day.

    Did I hear right?

    I hope he was advised to say that by Witty, Vallance and the other health chiefs.

       17 likes

  13. StewGreen says:

    Monday 8pm R4 … Tge BBC and there usual thing about strange sex.
    Since its first publication 20 years ago, The Ethical Slut has informed and changed opinions about non-monogamous lifestyles. Comedian Sophie Duker questions opinions of openness and sees first hand the struggles and complications that non-monogamous groups face.
    She asks if society is yet ready for complete acceptance of their lifestyle.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000gkw9

       9 likes

  14. Nibor says:

    Spare a thought for Anthony Ayres

    Anthony Ayres never was in full time employment , had a string of violent convictions before being sentenced for life after murdering a girlfriend who aborted his baby because she discovered his thieving habits . After serving eight years of his life sentence (?) he lived a life of criminality until he used a hammer to bludgeon Kelly Pearce and then knife her in his next murder .

    The worry is that this emergency might make the authorities think (?) along the same lines that the ordinary Joe thinks .
    ie ; if there is a food and medicine shortage , why keep scum alive when it could keep alive non criminals ?

    Let’s await the BBC report .

       22 likes

  15. Celtic_Mist says:

    It’s not just me that thinks this, the BBC behaviour is questionable –
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51980731

    “Research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed.
    So far, no country – nor the World Health Organisation (WHO) – has officially published treatment measures against Covid-19, but in China and South Korea, guidelines already outline the use of chloroquine as an “effective treatment”, the report said.”
    https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-lab-Sanofi-hypothetically-offers-millions-of-doses-of-potential-Covid-19-Plaquenil-anti-malaria-drug

       17 likes

  16. StewGreen says:

    New Covid 19 stats includes Saturday
    Bottomline : deaths slightly fell, big fall in new cases
    But 1 day blips mean nothing

    Total UK cases 5,683
    Daily new Confirmed Cases 665 (Fri was 1035, Wed was 643)
    New deaths 48 (8 less than Fri) ..running total 281

    Pattern Tue 33 new deaths, Wed 40, Thu 33
    Fri 56 , Sat 48

    Days tend to 150% of 2 days earlier
    That Trends to coming week
    : Sunday 84 … Tuesday 126, Thursday 189 new deaths per day

       7 likes

  17. BRISSLES says:

    Oh Christ, just heard that there’s a big exodus of camper vans and other modes of transport exiting the inner cities, on their way to the countryside and the Highlands and Islands ! They are going to be about as welcome as a convoy of Travellers turning up on your doorstep ! Piss off we don’t want you ! I can see a time when barbed wire is strewn across the entrance to villages to keep undesirables, the great unwashed, and the virus infected out !

       39 likes

  18. Deborah says:

    Stew, I don’t know who is being tested for the virus and why. I wondered if the drop in confirmed cases was because it was the weekend and it was taking longer for results to come back or less testing being done. Or are the only people being tested people on the brink of being admitted to hospital?
    I have wondered how people like Fiona Philips or Linda Lusardi come to know they have it. Private testing? And I hope people who were tested after exotic holidays (hello Nick Robinson ) feel embarrassed that they used up NHS supplies or did the BBC pay for a test?

    I must keep off the Daily Mail website, photo of a man collapsing in the street. By implication it was the virus. It could have been his heart, his drink or his drug of choice.

       25 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      Deborah the results are from Saturday
      And actually there were more tests than Friday
      it’s just less came back positive… about 12% of tested
      So it wasn’t due to lack of staff.

         12 likes

    • BRISSLES says:

      Well reading Fiona Philips account, it sounded like she just had normal flu, with headache sorethroat and achy bones, and not the persistent cough – fever- and difficulty breathing that we’ve constantly been told about. To me if you have any symptoms of anything and everything whatever they are then you’ve clearly got Coronovirus ! Being of an age when you get another symptom that’s manifested itself overnight and when you get out of bed in the morning, you wonder how the hell that happened, then anything is considered, even if its an earache or incontinence :}

         22 likes

      • StewGreen says:

        @Brissles 4pm Saturday FP tweeted
        I haven’t been (tested).
        I have all symptoms & got advice from 111.
        Never said I was tested. Bed rest & lots of water….

        I’m not suffering. It’s fine.
        Thanks for asking..

        Who is she ?
        Broadcaster BBC1, Ch5 People’s Postcode Lottery ambassador,D Mirror Columnist Alzheimer’s soc Ambassador

           6 likes

  19. Dave S says:

    Also Quercetin which is freely available or was has been the subject of serious studies in the East.

       3 likes

  20. StewGreen says:

    German lockdown

    People will not be allowed to form groups of three or more in public unless they live together in the same household, or the gathering is work-related. Police will monitor and punish anyone infringing the new rules.

    Restaurants will now only be allowed to open for takeaway service. All restrictions apply to every German state, and will be in place for at least the next two weeks.

    bit strange since they claim to have so few deaths (fishy stats)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51999080

    The page then goes on
    “Italy records second highest death toll”
    .. a strange spin
    ..cos we would say “Hey Italy’s daily death toll didn’t rise it’s fallen back to the same as two days ago”

       18 likes

  21. Celtic_Mist says:

    BBC’s bias by ommission – No, that’s being too kind..

    “China first reported cases of “mysterious Sars-like pneumonia” to the WHO on 31 December. At this point there was no confirmed human-to-human transmission, and little was known about the virus”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51970379

    The article goes on to praise Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South Korea

    Next, it rubbishes the UK and the US for being slow to respond.

    What is not mentioned in the article is the cover-up by WHO and China.

    “Taiwanese health officials have accused the World Health Organization of failing to communicate the country’s warning in December regarding possible human-to-human transmission of the Wuhan coronavirus, the Financial Times reported Friday.”
    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/taiwan-accuses-who-of-failing-to-heed-warning-of-coronavirus-human-to-human-transmission/

    “But Chinese leaders’ negligence in December and January—for well over a month after the first outbreak in Wuhan—far surpasses those bungled responses. The end of last year was the time for authorities to act, and, as Nicholas D. Kristof of The New York Times has noted, “act decisively they did—not against the virus, but against whistle-blowers who were trying to call attention to the public health threat.”
    “This is what allowed the virus to spread across the globe. Because the Chinese Communist Party was pretending that there was little to be concerned about, Wuhan was a porous purveyor of the virus. The government only instituted a lockdown in Wuhan on January 23—seven weeks after the virus first appeared..”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/

    NB the Atlantic is left liberal, so where does that put the BBC?

       33 likes

  22. Celtic_Mist says:

    We don’t hear much about Nobel Peace Prizes these days –

       17 likes

  23. Celtic_Mist says:

    The video says masks work but the message is not to use them
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-51881555/coronavirus-do-face-masks-actually-work

    Pence: The Bill President Trump Signed Last Night Unlocks Tens of Millions of N95 Masks
    https://grabien.com/story.php?id=279591

    Readers of the Guardian – masks reduce risk times five
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/can-face-mask-protect-me-coronavirus-covid-19-myths-busted

    Meltdown

       11 likes

  24. Up2snuff says:

    TOADY Watch #1 – Er what?

    Mishal highlights, in the first newspaper mention, the front page of the Daily Mirror – claiming the picture shows people ignoring social distancing – which it incidentally does not. Yet on the other newspaper front pages there are pictures of people outdoors where they are obviously distanced from each other, or not, but there is no mention of those front pages Mishal or Nick.

    Very selective.

    I wonder why?

       21 likes

  25. AsISeeIt says:

    Time for a somewhat tongue in cheek look at our lopsided British shutdown.
    Supermarkets
    Our mega grocers are doing a roaring trade. When all this is over might we see a windfall tax, I wonder?
    Schools closures
    Our teachers are so devoted to the education of the little tykes that they regularly down chalk at the merest hint of a snowflake. So give them a plausible excuse and they couldn’t wait to shut the school gates. In future don’t let them kid you how vital they are.
    Football suspended
    It was only going through the motions anyway. Look at the Premier League table – Everyone knew Liverpool had won it before Christmas and no one cares about the cup competitions anymore.
    Local elections postponed
    Within moments of opinion polls telling Labour they were going to get trounced and lose a load of Local Councils the biased Electoral Commission went all in for cancellation. Go figure.
    Pubs ordered to shut
    Payback to that Wetherspoons bloke who supported Brexit.
    Takeaway food outlets remain open
    Well, obviously. In the interests of the health of the nation?
    Borders
    What borders? Yes to social distancing but there’s still no international distancing. We’re still open to all and sundry.

       43 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      The borders thing will sway it for me.

      At the moment I am still working and taking sensible precautions, but the conspiracy theorist in me smells a rat, that said if my civil liberties get locked down further and borders remain open, then all bets are off.

         28 likes

  26. Up2snuff says:

    TOADY Watch #2 – Er what – again?

    Pallab Ghosh has just mentioned protective equipment for the NHS and two Consultants in London have contracted Covid-19. But Pallab did not tell us where those Consultants had been outside hospital. Had they been on ski-ing holidays at half-term. In Italy perhaps. Or visiting second homes in Spain?

    A lack of information was used to make a side attack on the UK Government and a supposed lack of PPE equipment in the NHS.

    Sneaky.

       27 likes

  27. vlad says:

    After decades of indifference over the ethnic cleansing of white farmers in South Africa, suddenly the racist beeb get very exercised about the murders of black children in the Western Cape province.
    Once again, to the racist beeb, Black Lives Matter more.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51875424

       43 likes

    • LastChanceSaloon says:

      v
      indifference!
      The BBC cannot resist gloating when something bad happens to white people everywhere.
      Unless, of course, the white people believe they deserve it.

         5 likes

  28. Up2snuff says:

    TOADY Watch #3 – Er, what again again?

    Mishal is not very bright and it is apparent right now how she attacks some contributors but gives others a free ride. Listen again, interview Mark Seddon of Forestry Commission @ approx 6.45 a.m..

    Nick Robinson is now exercising his dimness on our behalf.

    Oh joy … I’m teetering toward the OFF switch.

       21 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      Yup, switch it off. They are doing nothing to help whatsoever.

      It’s just bash bash.

      The NHS have billions of £ of funding, why don’t they have a stock of equipment ready for such times of national crisis? Or has the money been wasted elsewhere….

      As for the planning, it’s appearing to be fag packet at best.

         24 likes

      • gb123 says:

        WW you have hit the nail bang on the head. I am of the opinion the planning has been more knee jerk than anything else. Maybe it hasn’t, but the overhyping media and less than stellar transmission of clear simple and calming information is contributing to panic. This is also leading to flouting of any instructions.
        I think, since smoking is banned everywhere, they have been struggling to find a fag packet to plan on. They need to use a napkin or something else and think outside the box.

           15 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          gb 123, you have continued the construction effort with aplomb: “I think, since smoking is banned everywhere, they have been struggling to find a fag packet to plan on. They need to use a napkin or something else and think outside the box.”

             8 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        TWW, I have been wondering about the Dept. of Health and its Civil Servants. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if Matt Hancock (SoSfH) had ordered the distribution of PPE equipment from warehouses and ….

        Sir Humphrey then said “Is that wise, Minister? It might create a climate of fear, some panic. Think of the other staff in the NHS, they will feel hurt, left out, abandoned. What about the telephone receptionists? The secretaries. Shouldn’t they have PPE equipment too? Is there enough for them?”

        Hancock: “Just get it done, Sir Humphrey, straight away.”

        Sir Humphrey: “That’s very brave of you, very courageous, Minister, to put your career on the line like that. May I ask, should the officials in this building not receive PPE equipment first? If not, I would have to object very strongly and take certain .. er … shall we say … measures.”

        Hancock: “What measures? I want this done. Now.”

        Sir Humphrey: “Well, it might be leaked to the newspapers and the broadcast media, especially the BBC, that you had done something without first consulting the Doctors associations, the Midwives, the College of Anaesthetists, the CMHOs in the devolved authorities, the NHS Trade Unions, the …. “

           21 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      @up2Snuff : wrong name. It’s Mike Seddon
      So on the 23rd he was saying STAY AWAY ?

      yet on 20th he tweeted “come on down”

      BTW The FC also tweeted on March 21
      “Today marks International Day of Forests and whilst we recognise the importance of our woodlands and forests to biodiversity we remind you to please continue to follow Government advice on COVID-19 around social distancing if you choose to visit them at this time. #IntForestDay “

         4 likes

      • StewGreen says:

        Their webpage says “Forests are open, the facilities are closed , practice social distancing”

           7 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Beg pardon, Stew. Early a.m. brain fade is the excuse. Awake at 5.00a.m., glorious sunrise, less glorious listening to the BBC from 5.50a.m..

        Tweet of the Day was really good, however. Highly recommended.

        (He obviously hasn’t got his own message. Apparently he’s closed the large forests with large car parks. I’m a bit staggered by the ‘CEO Forestry England’ thing. Is everything in the UK devolved these days? Tony Blair has a lot to answer for!)

           6 likes

  29. Guest Who says:

    Mason, Sweeney!, Owen, Champion, Rory … the list of gobs that stare in close up at iPhone lenses to share their wisdom is perplexing.

       20 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      This Sweeny thing really is a pathetic creature.

      I am lost for words as to describe my levels of contempt for spineless scum such as he.

         44 likes

    • vlad says:

      Mr Royale has declared that Cummings and Johnson must resign – I’m sure they’re quaking in their boots.

      The great penseur hath spoke. The Prophet of Hindsight, the Oracle of What-ifs has opined.

         25 likes

    • Celtic_Mist says:

      The flaw in Sweeney’s argument is that the ‘science’ wasn’t done until 16 march so Boris couldn’t have known what the models would predict –

      https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

      It was then clear that the NHS would be overloaded unless drastic action was taken to slow the pace of infection

      Whether or not the paper is reliable is another question due to the number of assumptions, and it’s remarkable that the paper also forms the basis for the current US strategy, because the paper has not been peer-reviewed.

      The paper could have been designed to force Boris down the social distancing road, which from an economic and social point of view is a disaster in the making.

         5 likes

      • The WestWyvern says:

        Sweeney has no argument to defend.

        Hes a dick. End of story and needs to be called out as such.

        To use his favored method of communication:

        #jonsweeneybellend

           17 likes

  30. Van Helsing says:

    Dave, I think it is quite possible that COVID-19 has been here since last year.

    I posted previously about one of my wife’s work colleagues returning from a business trip to Wuhan last November and thereafter spreading a bug with symptoms identical to Covid-19 at his workplace, thereby infecting both my wife and me along with several others. My wife was particularly badly affected – it took her four weeks to get over it, and a bit longer for her sense of taste to return.

    I’ve since heard of other cases from late last year that also fit the description of COVID-19. Perhaps possible UK cases from 2019 can be investigated when the antibody test kits become available in sufficient numbers to enable non-priority testing to be undertaken.

       21 likes

    • The WestWyvern says:

      Dave, Van I posted before on this theory.

      I work for an Italian company. Prior to Christmas an office colleague was in Milan, Rome or the UK every other day. All in close proximity to him, and myself included were very ill before Christmas with many of the same symptoms.

      Like your wife, my brother whom also works in Rome/Milano was ill for 4 weeks and visited the GP twice only to be told it’s the seasonal flu.

         23 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Van, one of the questions I would like to ask a virologist is about that funny ‘flu’ that existed three, four and five years ago. It started with a dry cough rather than the usual ‘flu’ symptoms of cold upper body, ache, fever & fever hiatus with shivers, catarrh, nasal discharge and cough at the end. I call it Eric Morecambe ‘flu’ because all the symptoms are there but not necessarily in the same order.

      Apparently, it has left four million people (according to the BBC) UPDATE: article appears to have changed 10% of people worldwide with permanent coughs. I may be one of them.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51587992

      That’s an interesting alteration to the article I originally read. Glad I filed it away.

         20 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      @VH @WW interesting to hear firsthand accounts of “dry cough, no sense of taste” flu from before New Year.

      And note when Italian cases reached the hospitals they couldn’t find any connection between victims and China.
      They were not able to establish a patient-zero who had brought it from China

         6 likes

      • The WestWyvern says:

        We have been comparing Malpensa and Bergamo Airports to China Town for the last 6months in the office. I recall one discussion when we questioned if they were all tourists. Oh no replied a local, they are working in the textiles industry to ship made in Italy fashion back to China. Many direct flights every week to Wuhan.

           11 likes

  31. Halifax says:

    Are you like me and sick of seeing BME faces on every picture on the BBC news site ??
    Well help is at hand. Look at the pictures of people “disregarding” Boris warning not to “gather” not a BME face to be seen…

    Do you think they have turned the corner or are all BME following Boris advice and it’s just nasty whitey who is spreading it……I wonder x

    See you all on the other side….

       50 likes

  32. john in cheshire says:

    How’s this for an accusation against the Prime Mentalist?

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/03/former-uk-pm-accused-letting-muslim-rape-gangs-robert-spencer/

       11 likes

  33. Up2snuff says:

    I did switch off R4 close to 7a.m. but couldn’t resist switching on just at the end of the sports report with Rob Sport @7.30a.m..

    Interesting that horse racing is still going on Ireland.

    However, whatever – TftD was done by John Bell of the Iona Community. It was really good for a change. Listen again if you didn’t hear it.

       7 likes

    • Halifax says:

      I’m quoting Jim Lovell the commander of Apollo 8 . This was the first mission to go around the moon with the orbit taking them around the “dark side”. They didn’t really know what to expect as they lost radio and telemetry data….just before they lost radio contact Jim Lovell said…..”see you on the other side”…an apt quote in these times as hopefully there will be a “other side” soon….

         18 likes

      • JimS says:

        I can’t help but think that we are being marshalled on to ‘Ark B’ from The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, but the other way around.

        We will stick our heads out of the door one day and find that Ken Clarke, Kier Starmer, Gina Miller and Michel Barnier have all b***ered off to another planet, taking the Crown Jewels etc. with them.

        “This is Mark Easton, from the Planet Zogg. Goodbye deplorables and thanks for the fish!”

           16 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          Jim, brilliant. Well done, Sir.

          It may explain why I’ve had Peter Jones’ voice running through my head since the end of February.

             9 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Halifax, aaah gotcha … ummhh … bit tempting to whip out the Pink Floyd, then.

           3 likes

  34. Guest Who says:

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/todays-hot-topic-linekers-1-75m-banter/?

    Then there is the awesome value that is the tweeting by John Simpson and Jeremy Bowen (views their own).

       9 likes

  35. Jeff says:

    I don’t usually watch breakfast telly and Piers Morgan brings me out in hives. I can’t stand the loudmouthed bore. But this morning he has made me smile.
    He’s having a rant (well, isn’t he always?) about the public’s response, or lack of, to the government’s request for self isolation and they’re showing films from yesterday’s gatherings in parks and at the seaside. It’s clear these idiots aren’t paying attention and they’re out en mass. It’s being treated like a bank holiday outing.
    “How hard can it be?” rants Piers “You’ve been asked to stay at home or keep two metres apart…” And yet the podgy blatherer is sitting there ranting, shouting the odds, blaming everyone else and calling the public morons and yet he’s only about three feet from his female sidekick. They’re sitting in an enclosed space and the amount of hot air could fuel a Zeppelin.
    I’ve always thought this bloke was a tabloid dipstick.
    And here’s the proof…

       40 likes

    • JimS says:

      There used to be a Bank Holiday tradition in which a senior police officer would be quoted, “Please stagger your jouneys!”

      As Margaret Thatcher could have said, there is no such thing as ‘the public’, it is just individuals doing what seems reasonable to them, they can’t read the minds of other individuals.

      A household, living in a standard UK rabbit hutch, bundled in a car then arriving together at a National Park might just as well walk together.

      Of course some things can make individuals act as one, such as a ‘trusted broadcaster’ showing video of queues and empty shelves followed by audio of ‘the government and food retailers say there is plenty of food’. We naturally believe the picture that we see with our eyes, not the ‘wise words’.

      No journalist ever wants to report, “Today nothing happened”, so if they can create a crisis they will.

         33 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Don’t forget the crafty telephoto lens compression [some social distancing being done by the photographer 😉 ] that is used to enhance crowds at anti-Brexit, pro-LibDem and XR demos.

           17 likes

  36. Fedup2 says:

    MSM / NHS watch

    It must be great being a manager in the NHS . If you fail to have enough protective kit available for medics do the real job you need not worry – because the responsibility / blame will be laid in just 2 place – the sec state for health and the PM .

    Forget all those ‘civil servants ‘, administrators , hospital chain of command , no – none of them – 2 politicians at the top are personally responsible for counting and ordering rubber gloves .
    Chief executives -I’m sure – receive adequate ‘ compensation ‘ ( wages ) for their job but where is their accountability . ?

    The MSM never touches , questions of criticises them . Not right .

    And … the trauma experienced on Sunday be those who have not been able to go to Mass for the first time in their Lives – any mention – any where in the anti Christian MSM ? Tell me if there was –
    I write this because I am avoiding the BBC /MSM as much as I can …..

       36 likes

    • JamesArthur says:

      Fedup2
      Agree absolutely – it is always somebody else’s responsibility – and those that get paid for it (lots of money) seem to escape any criticism…despite them always saying they are prepared for …X Y Z

      It appears it is now just the fault of Boris…..everything…

         13 likes

  37. Doublethinker says:

    Since being confined to barracks I have spent time looking for entertainment on the internet and found more than I expected. I wonder if one long term effect of the pandemic will be to hasten the decline in numbers of people who take broadcast TV and radio and pay the LF.
    I’m sure that the BBC are well aware of this and will be doing everything to shore up their position . Undermining the government, hoping for a new government which views the foul corporation favourably, making out that in times of national crisis it’s the place everyone turns to for news and cheering up, we all know the stuff they will come up with. But another few hundred thousand not paying the telly tax would pile more pressure on the overmighty BBC.

       28 likes

  38. Fedup2 says:

    Double
    I’m more concerned that the BBC will strengthen its position as ‘ needed’ by claiming that everyone turns to it in times such as these.

    The counter argument that it has

    A monopoly position
    Has been unsupportive of messages
    Has undermined the state
    Has reported and fueled panic
    Has been neutral when condemnation was needed

    Might not be enough to shake off the new governments soft attempt to put in a box and eventually bury it in its current form ….

       20 likes

  39. Thoughtful says:

    Yesterday in one of the last posts on the previous thread I wrote that the cowardly useless incompetent Tories were still allowing flights into the UK from the worst affected coronavirus hotspots.

    This morning I find the same story in the Mail and the Times, and I can’t help thinking it’s not a coincidence.

    It’s not the first time pieces from this site have been picked up by the media and used, and I’m sure others are also aware of their scribblings being lifted too.

       26 likes

  40. Square-Eyed says:

    Covid-19 in the US

    After the accustomed advert Bill wades in at 0:46.

       3 likes

  41. LastChanceSaloon says:

    I open my Marks and Spencer Account.
    Hitherto I have only ordered clothing.
    Today I want to order food to avoid leaving my home.
    Sounds sensible and good citizen behaviour.
    They have stopped taking food orders for home delivery!
    Thank you M&S.

    While I have the account open I examine some clothing items.
    Lo and behold, only one or two African “models” per page are shown and zero “enrichers” from Asia!
    White males are shown, hard to believe!
    I am betting one year from now, when the situation has returned to “normal”, abnormal service will be resumed.
    Abnormality being wall to wall Negroes.
    Got this Maxi, you ****?

       32 likes

    • Celtic_Mist says:

      LastChance, I feel your pain..

      I was in Specsavers recently and was getting annoyed by all the coffee-colored young images until I realised I was sitting in front of a huge picture of an old white man, so large in fact one had to stand back to take it all in!

         13 likes

  42. The WestWyvern says:

    For any hacked-off with the Anti-BBC

    https://uk.reuters.com/news/uk

       13 likes

  43. Thatcherrevolutionary says:

    I was quite shocked with the financial levels of support being offered in the UK and US. 80% Salaries, No rates, VAT holiday, etc etc
    Eye watering numbers and levels not seen since WW2.

    Does anyone else think the UK and US are simply going to hold China accountable and cancel their respective debts to China?

    In 2018, about 27% of UK debt was overseas-owned, and China was the largest single country in that figure. That suggests that China might own about 15% of UK debt — so about 267 billion.

    The U.S. debt to China is $1.07 trillion as of December 2019.

       16 likes

  44. BRISSLES says:

    Um, we are told that wearing a face mask is no protection against the virus – it only prevents any germs you have infecting others. So does that mean NHS workers wont be protected either, by wearing a mask ? Because we are getting the message that face masks are desperately needed to PROTECT NHS workers. Well, I have about a dozen that I’ve had for years, so will wear them when things get really dire.

       15 likes

    • Celtic_Mist says:

      The BBC tries to discourage us from using masks.

      However, the Guardian says it increases protection by a factor of five –
      /
      Claim: ‘Face masks don’t work’
      Wearing a face mask is certainly not an iron-clad guarantee that you won’t get sick – viruses can also transmit through the eyes and tiny viral particles, known as aerosols, can penetrate masks. However, masks are effective at capturing droplets, which is a main transmission route of coronavirus, and some studies have estimated a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier alone (although others have found lower levels of effectiveness).

      If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on. If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others. So masks are crucial for health and social care workers looking after patients and are also recommended for family members who need to care for someone who is ill – ideally both the patient and carer should have a mask.

      However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/can-face-mask-protect-me-coronavirus-covid-19-myths-busted

         10 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Brissles, the medical people will often wear plain goggles. If memory serves me well, they are quite large and fit over speactacles for sight correction. This dates back to the HIV era. In an operating theatre or A&E situation you can get blood splatter going up onto a face of nurse or doctor and into the eyes.

      I’m in a house that may possibly have asbestos in the dreaded Artex on the ceilings. Whenever I decorate and paint a ceiling, while prepping it I wear a mask and goggles. The DIY stores sell different qualities of these things including those that need to be worn when working with MDF or sanding plaster or removing Artex. The masks have different particulate filtration levels up to, I think, respirator filters on the side like the NHS EPP/Biohazard masks.

         8 likes

  45. StewGreen says:

    Police told TR ‘You are not supposed to chase thugs even if you seen them overstepping the line with their aggression against 2 old people and they have smashed your car’ paraphrased

    https://www.tr.news/tommy-robinson-stops-coronavirus-attack-in-the-uk/

       23 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      Local paper completely keeps TR’s name out
      “An altercation then ensued after a passerby intervened.” “a vehicle was damaged.”

      “Three teenagers have been arrested following an altercation in Hitchin which left a woman in her 70s with bruising to one of her eyes.”
      “They have been released under investigation while enquiries continue.”

      “It has also come to police’s attention that there is footage circulating on social media and we would politely ask that people refrain from sharing the video for the same reasons.”

         24 likes

  46. theisland says:

    In a nutshell

    Other ‘erroneous assumptions’ made by MPs are:
    (i) the bBC is an impartial public broadcaster and ‘national treasure’
    (ii) civil service mandarins etc. work on behalf of our national interests and are not corrupt

       35 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      OK in his tweet David doesn’t show bad ethnic behaviour
      but then the point is media are reluctant to publish examples.
      The libmob then piled in below his tweet to denounce him in their normal #BeKindNOT way by posting lots of newspaper pics which purport to show white people doing bad behaviour.

         10 likes

    • Doublethinker says:

      The effectiveness of the lock down in France is patchy even though it is backed up by some fairly draconian measures such as repeat offenders who have been flouting the new regulations potentially getting heavy fines and prison. The number of police of various types that France can put on the streets to enforce the lockdown is three to four per head of population what the UK has. I have my doubts as to how effective a complete lockdown will be in the UK . Additionally I wonder what will happen if food rationing is introduced at some some future date. Will people ‘stay calm and carry on’ or are we heading for societal breakdown with riots and looting? I agree with the above post that enrichment and thirty years of liberalism has undermined the fabric of British society to such an extent that complete breakdown is possible. A wise government would be making sure that the army and the other services can be sent to back up the police if there is trouble.

         11 likes

  47. Jeff says:

    Something else that David Vance has pointed out, though (surprise, surprise) I’ve not heard it mentioned on the BBC…
    All churches have closed, but many mosques have remained open.
    I don’t think there’s been any reference of this anywhere, but if true…and DV is usually on the money…this needs exposing and explaining.
    These rules are supposed to apply to everyone.

       41 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      If you are going to make a big claim like “many mosques have remained open”
      .. then you need to supply big evidence.
      And doesn’t mean old info from a newspaper
      Than means info from today.

      When I looked on Saturday night the only reference was the video of the crowds outside the Leicester mosque before the 11am shortened service.

      I wouldn’t rule out certain groups doing funerals
      cos they can be sticklers for traditions.
      And not just Muslims but those weird money-making African churches.

         12 likes

      • Roland Deschain says:

        There is a church opposite my elderly parents’ house. When I drove by yesterday there were people going in, much to my surprise.

           7 likes

  48. Doobster78 says:

    There we have it again !! Jeremy Vine , Germany are doing this, Germany are doing that ….. typical BBC narrative … EVERYONE, EVERYONE, is doing everything better than us !!!

    Nothing like the national broadcaster getting behind the country in times like this .. they are a RANCID outfit. Rancid i tell thee.

       48 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      There was a notion that for something ‘good’ to happen in one place, something bad needs to happen elsewhere.

      Given most BBC staff have been willing, often outright in print, for Don and Boris to get zapped, so far it seems Justin and Mutti have copped it.

      Just sayin’.

         15 likes

    • JimS says:

      Brave of you to get that far!

      I gave up after the nurse bleating that they hadn’t enough specialist nurses to tell them how to do their jobs and that bin liners weren’t good enough as they might rip if a patient grabbed them!

      If someone was working at Porton Down and there was something really bad in a test-tube then multiple near-100% measures would be taken to keep the bad from the personnel.

      In the case of someone with a virus contact with them won’t ensure 100% transfer and each additional barrier makes a difference, even if they aren’t near-100% effective.

      I don’t buy this ‘front-line’ argument either. The ‘unemployed’ granny might be the child-minder that allows a ‘key-worker’ to do their job. The ‘key-worker’ concept only works in the very short term as spare capacity/stocks can be taken up but before long it becomes apparent that other jobs play their part too.

         6 likes

    • JamesArthur says:

      Doob
      You are right..why is it they think everyone else is doing it ‘right’ or ‘better’ compared to us?

      Piers Morgan, who I usuallly like – is being a huge dipstick at the moment with his rhetoric in the same vein..

      Nobody knows who is doing it right or better at the moment…time will tell and hopefully everyone will learn..

      But you would like to think our MSM would be a help now, not a hysterical hinder

         9 likes

  49. Charlie Farley says:

    To cover the cost of this Pandemic for us I do hope its coming out of the Billions that the EU ” were expecting “

       25 likes

  50. digg says:

    Democratic Warren woman in the USA screaming and jumping on the coronavirus bandwagon to try to throw dung at Trump.

    Really just a continuation of the pathetic and lying attempts of the Democrats to bring him down ever since he got elected and an insult to all the sufferers of this epidemic, cheap political point scoring.

    Nothing to see here!

       21 likes

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