170 Responses to The stuck indoors Thread 21 March 2020

  1. Scroblene says:

    Just go to the charity shops and buy some decent DVDs!

    Better still, Ebay…

       15 likes

    • Fedup2 says:

      Oh scrob – the title of the thread was aimed at those stuck indoors and therefore unable to go to places like charity shops

      I wondered if it was a good idea to put up such a thread …..

         7 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Fed, you tried, you tried. Have a dollop of sympathy.

        I like nostalgia. Was a kid in the 1960s. Time of the Sunday supplements. Mary Quant. Twiggy. David Bailey.

        One of the best TV programmes I’ve seen in years, back when I was allowed to use iPlayer before that meanie Lord HawHaw took it away, was called ‘The Man Who Shot the Sixties.’ It is available down the U-tube, lasts an hour or so but may be split into bits when you find it.

        It wasn’t made by the BBC but by an independent production company and I think they did a first rate job. Did go out on BBC2 if I recall correctly. It is not about David Bailey but there are some good sequences of old folk sitting around joshing each other.

        Bit like here, really …..

           14 likes

        • Fedup2 says:

          Good films on the TV

          – Parkland – on C4 Sunday night
          Best film in the coming week – Margin Call – on BBC 2 next Sunday night I think

          Good film on Prime – Emperor

          Good Free film on ‘YouTube ‘ by dawns early light “-very apt in current circumstances . .

             2 likes

      • Scroblene says:

        Aw Fed, I really wasn’t thinking straight..:0(

        It’s just that we’ve already done all that some time ago, when we gave up an bbc ‘dramas’ or other stuff several years ago, and while we are checking the news now and then, it’s DVDs of ‘New Tricks’ (yeah I know, but we both like Sandra, Jack, Brian and Gerry – me especially where Sandra is concerned), and we panic-bought a load online a couple of years ago, when I first started looking at your site here…

        (Have I grovelled enough please – I’d buy you a pint if they were open..:0)

           10 likes

  2. Deborah says:

    The worst thing I have seen since the U.K.’s defence against the virus wasn’t the BBC, and that is saying something. For some reason YouTube directed me to John Torrode on Good Morning Britain (which I think is ITV) cooking with store cupboard ingredients to overcome the difficulties caused by others hoarding. He said he used 100g of pasta per person and kept emphasising what he was using was enough for 4 people. It might have been sufficient in a high end restaurant as one of 7 courses but it really wasn’t enough for 4 but the cameraman refused to show us a closeup of the finished dish. He was suggesting a very small portion of pasta, with a eighth of a tin of tomatoes per person, with a few olives. If someone had cooked his dish on Masterchef he would have been very sarcastic.

       21 likes

  3. Guest Who says:

    Get in.

    The url alone is perfection.

       10 likes

  4. Dystopian says:

    Now that most people use internet banking and contactless cards rather than cash. What happens when the internet gets switched off and the powers that be have complete control.
    A scary thought is that all our bank balances are just a number that can easily be reset to zero.

       35 likes

    • BRISSLES says:

      Glad I’m one of the rarities that doesn’t use internet banking then ! I’ve always wondered what happens when halfway through a transaction your pc crashes, where does the money go. Tooooooo risky for me. AND I still write cheques out.

         20 likes

      • Scroblene says:

        I think it was here that someone suggested that people from a certain country were working the rounds in garages, refusing cash from customers and cloning cards, then disappearing.

        I did actually go online and check our account a.s.a.p. but so far so good…

        I won’t go there again anyway as they’re rude, and never say please and thank you!

        Thanks a bunch BP!

           12 likes

  5. Guest Who says:

    The national broadcaster of the United Kingdom.

       28 likes

    • john in cheshire says:

      Well muslims seem to favour the colour green, so that must mean it’s THE green religion.

      I suppose that’s why the racist far-left bbc love it so much. All that greeny goodness, it’s islamalicious.

         30 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Especially Moussavi’s courageous women ….

        …. but then they were not in favour of Islam but wanted more democracy.

           10 likes

  6. G.W.F. says:

    Has anyone noticed how many front line doctors being interviewed
    are young attractive females, very often wearing glasses with black frames which often slide down and have to be pushed back into place?
    Perhaps I am being conspiratorial – today’s equivalent of being far right – but it occurred to me that they might be actors.

       41 likes

    • Fedup2 says:

      Gwf
      I don’t think the lady doctor giving an interview in an Italian hospital on Sky this afternoon – showing lines of coffins -was an actor – but she was wearing specs .

         11 likes

      • G.W.F. says:

        Fedup2

        Agreed. But this kind of thing is expected from the BBC who have an agenda.

           18 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          Seven years of study and learning all those Latin words and technical terms and drug names is going to leave the old eyesight shot to pieces for many Doctors.

             12 likes

          • dfhunter says:

            I do wonder if the Beeb ask all comments/input to be from non UK White people to push the Brexit “we are multicultural” meme!!!

            anybody live in London & can give a feel for the Beeb bias?

            bbc north west push the same agenda – “interview anybody except those that have lived there for generations & are pissed off”

               1 likes

    • john in cheshire says:

      It’s the matriarchy in action, supported by weak, etoliated men.

      Why are so many women used for voice overs in radio adverts?

      Why are there so many women used to dish out travel news on the radio?

      It’s deliberate, it’s insidious and it’s more than irritating.

         31 likes

    • maxincony says:

      G.W.F.,

      Perhaps I am being conspiratorial – today’s equivalent of being far right – but it occurred to me that they might be actors.

      Perhaps

         9 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Oh! Hallo maxincony, you know what I’m going to ask for, don’t you: where’s that apology you owe me?

        You are a fraud.

           13 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      It was the first photo that comes up
      ..but there weren’t a lot more

         3 likes

  7. Guest Who says:

    Shots fired.

       16 likes

  8. Guest Who says:

       10 likes

    • john in cheshire says:

      I could only stand watching half of this video.

      What’s the matter with him, why is he so desperate to make himself relevant?

      Why is it his nature to attack people rather than what people are saying; the premier example of this, his kir royale one might say, is Tommy Robinson. Mr Sweeney had no interest in what Tommy Robinson was saying, Mr Sweeney just wanted to destroy Tommy Robinson as a person.

         42 likes

    • vlad says:

      Various people across the political spectrum are bemoaning pub closures (not me, I think it’s sensible), but who does Mr Royale choose to single out for opprobrium? Why, 3 people on the right, surprise surprise.
      In beebland right=bad, left=good.

         18 likes

      • maxincony says:

        vlad,

        …but who does Mr Royale choose to single out for opprobrium? Why, 3 people on the right, surprise surprise.

        His criticism of those three people isn’t any the less valid because of their politics. If you have any others to add to the list (left, right or otherwise), feel free to mention them here…

           4 likes

    • G says:

      GW,
      Yes, I’ll really think about that Sweeney when I’m finally on my way out. Rest assured…………

         1 likes

  9. davylars says:

    Channel 152 select on virgin.
    Providing all our entertainment needs tonight

       4 likes

  10. Guest Who says:

    How freakin’ sad is this?

       16 likes

  11. Halifax says:

    Isolated Man 61 with 8 tins of rice pudding seeks spontaneous women with Jam for mutual benefit.

       43 likes

  12. Nibor says:

    The Survivors (1975 ) is available on You Tube .

       14 likes

  13. StewGreen says:

    @Fed “The stuck INDOORS”
    that’s the 2+2=6 thinking that I heard on BBC local yesterday
    The presenter meant to say “those isolating” .

    No one is STUCK INDOORS
    We can all go outside
    cos it’s not like the covid19 attacks you in the back garden.
    And you won’t catch anything walking around the block as lng as you don’t let people cough over you
    or you touch your face after touching a contaminated surface.

    BTW I wonder if people who don’t go to pubs nor church are up for some award, for the past few years of not spreading flu ?

       22 likes

    • maxincony says:

      StewGreen,

      No one is STUCK INDOORS We can all go outside

      Stew, sweetheart, not everything people say is meant to be taken LITERALLY. People are stuck indoors because THERE’S NO WHERE ELSE TO GO; not because they can’t spend three hours alone, standing in a field, staring into the abyss.

      (Oh and please don’t reply; ‘you don’t HAVE TO stand in a field’)

      BTW I wonder if people who don’t go to pubs nor church are up for some award, for the past few years of not spreading flu ?

      Good grief, how old are you? Seven and three quarters?

         4 likes

      • LastChanceSaloon says:

        “New pandemic symptom is failure to detect irony” states Chris Witty.
        “Perpetual night shifts on Islamic AlBeeb atrophy the mind and produce paranoia” states Sir Patrick Vallance.
        “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt” states everyone older than 3⅞ years.

           12 likes

        • maxincony says:

          LastChanceSaloon,

          When you speak and remove all doubt:
          .

          nig.jpg

             10 likes

          • LastChanceSaloon says:

            Yawn.
            Criticise my contribution 03:08 and 04:44 on the weekend thread.
            Bring some mates, you will need them.

               14 likes

          • Rob in Cheshire says:

            Hi Max,

            So good to hear from you as ever, but seriously, 3.05 am? When do you sleep?

            You need to get out in the sun a bit more, it will do you good.

               6 likes

      • Foscari says:

        Maxincony- Going outside can be “dodgy”. Myself and my wife both are 74 and I have an underlying heart problem. Actually its called
        heart failure , but that’s just a prerogative term. We went for a walk
        in the local park with our springer spanial bitch Mimi. We were not
        the only ones with the same idea. If we did not walk past 100 folk
        with the same idea it was 500.
        On one narrow passage near the allotments on the Dollis Valley
        walk. Mimi decided to her business. It was a messy affair.
        It took two bags and a passing walker with wet wipes offered
        to help as well. What with opening the wet wipe and at
        least 30 people being within a meter of me as I was struggling
        doing my duty whilst holding on to a very lively bitch .
        If you do not hear from me in a few days time. You will know
        what the outcome was.

           23 likes

      • StewGreen says:

        Maxi when a BBC presenters says that people have to stay INDOORS
        instead “at home”
        that does matter, cos a bit of sun in the garden does have a big positive impact for your health,.. without it you won’t get enough vitamin D.
        And yes some people potentially take it literally …. ricketts.

           12 likes

      • Banania says:

        Whence this uncustomary loquacity? This crisis has got you excited.

           0 likes

    • G says:

      SG,
      “…cos it’s not like the covid19 attacks you in the back garden.”
      A word of warning. If you live alongside/downwind of chain smoking Lithuanians who normally and in any event, don’t give a toss about other people, particularly the indigenous, you might care to add a caveat.
      There is some chinese research, based upon individuals who had no contact with anybody, living in virtual isolation in a multi-storey who contracted the chinese virus. The only conclusion the ‘scientist’ could reach was that the virus was airborne and mobile in those ‘bathroom’ smells from adjoining properties ‘after the event’ (dump!).

         11 likes

      • StewGreen says:

        @G you know the drill “scientist” “Could” and “upto”
        are all weasel words used to build up scary narratives

        “scientists say I COULD be struck by upto 1,000 , meteorites tomorrow”
        Just like “you could catch airbourne covid19 from the neighbours toilet”
        .. It seems to me that is a halfpenny risk when there are plenty of £10 risks
        .. it would like winning a £50m lottery with a 5p ticket.

        Risk is never zero
        It’s all about cancelling the major risks.

        It wouldn’t surprise if the Brighton doctor caught covid19 not from a lift button, but cos he’d been having it off with the same prostitute who’ caught it from a Chinese the week before.

           6 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Stew, quite right.

      The weather is going to be obligingly helpful this week. Dry, sunny and cold. Long scarves around the face. What? Prevent Covid-19 infection? No, catch the drips due the cold from of the end of noses of healthy people getting healthier by the day.

         6 likes

  14. Fedup2 says:

    I give up

       11 likes

    • JimS says:

      For those interested in physics Walter Lewin’s lectures are worth looking for on YouTube.

      Chris Barrie’s ‘Britain’s Greatest Machines’ is surprisingly good.

      More up to date and political are the ‘New Culture Forum’ interviews, no cheap ‘gotchas’. Ditto Steve Edgington of ‘The Sun’.

      Maybe we all need to be researching how to survive with only a town garden?

         9 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Spoke too soon, Fed 😉

         0 likes

  15. ScottishCalvin says:

    You watch a lot of Fox thanks to YouTube, albeit you’d either be up very late or watching in the morning. Tucker Carlson does the flagship evening show but I tend to recommend Steve Hilton’s weekly show on Sunday.

       10 likes

    • G says:

      ScottishCalvin,
      Just the chap. Only thinking about you before turning the PC on today. My vision of the future for your unique skills, business people c/w briefcases walking through a typical business district but in nappies. Cos, that’s what the World will be left with come the end of the Chinese virus.

         4 likes

  16. Guest Who says:

    BBC Steve has ‘a feeling’. Bless.

    ***

    After several days with no “home-grown” infections, according to China’s official figures, there is a feeling there that the coronavirus emergency appears to be under control in the country.

    The BBC’s China correspondent Stephen McDonell reports as people in Beijing head outdoors.
    bbc.in/CoronavirusLatest

       10 likes

  17. Deborah says:

    Just read on the DM online a really scary article written by a doctor on the front line with this virus. Full of mentions of having to see things no doctor should ever have to see, how they aren’t being protected properly, having to make choices no doctor should have to make, etc etc. My grandmother was a doctor caring for people with Spanish flu. I don’t suppose she had protective clothing, or the drugs to help her patients. And the doctors who served in WW1 or any war, they too were having to make life or death decisions about young men. But this doctor for the Daily Mail had the time and energy to write quite a long piece to scare future patients to death before they ever arrive in the hospital and I felt this was a doctor, only a couple of weeks into this crisis, feeling very sorry for themselves. Doctors have had a long training, costing over £250,000 each, paid well for much of their career. This is their time to repay their debt. It may be hard and it may be horrible, but hopefully it shouldn’t last for ever. My grandmother got over what she saw of Spanish flu, I am sure these doctors should do the same.

    Sorry if this sounds a rant but I know too many friends’ children who have gone into medicine ‘because it pays well’. Hopefully I will be back BBC moaning after this and not dependent on young doctors deciding if I have a future.

       45 likes

    • maxincony says:

      Deborah,

      My grandmother got over what she saw of Spanish flu, I am sure these doctors should do the same.

      Yeah, Deborah, it’s a real shame you weren’t around when your grandmother came home exhausted and in tears, that you couldn’t tell her to stop feeling sorry for herself.

      Oh but,

      You read a “really scary article”…

      Poor, poor you.

         6 likes

      • Scroblene says:

        Maxicony, I don’t normally read much into your comments so don’t respond to them, but this one you have done is just plain nasty.

        Looking back at the few you’ve done overnight proves the point as well.

        I’m sure you’ll have several more responses now, which will give you some perverted satisfaction, so be prepared for quite a lot of hate aimed in your direction.

        Now fuck off.

           62 likes

        • Darcy3 says:

          Here, here, about time we hear much less from the far left twitter twats and their globalist, refugee welcoming open border, freedom of movement mental illness, with a pandemic an obvious consequence

             31 likes

          • Scroblene says:

            Thank you Darcy!

            I’ve got several more chums here to thank as well – that little prick just made me very angry, and as chums here know, I’m an amiable sort of bloke…

               10 likes

        • Deborah says:

          Thanks Scrob. My point was that if we get so poorly that we end up in hospital we want medical staff who care for us not feel sorry for themselves . They may see dreadful things, but so have doctors in the past which the DM doctor seemed to forget. We don’t want to read about the dreadful things they are seeing because if we get very ill we will see it anyway and why scare people with underlying conditions more than they might be? And doctors and nurses will get over what they have seen in this outbreak. My grandmother described what went on in terms of her patients not herself.

             36 likes

          • Beltane says:

            There is no point in trying to counter Maxi’s venom Deb, it only inspires greater production and increased boredom.
            Take comfort from the fact that he personifies all that we find most despicable about his world.

               15 likes

            • Despairada says:

              Agree. I wonder who are the two people who ‘like’ him?

                 10 likes

              • Scroblene says:

                One’s a twat and so is the other one, Despers!

                Job done, idiots like this little gal (what’s hername Maxinine something unpleasant)… can do what I suggested earlier on.

                   7 likes

          • Scroblene says:

            Deborah, I’m here for you!

            Twonks just don’t get air-time with me, and that sad little prick has just made my Mother’s Day so special!

            (Scrobs, can you explain please…;0)

               8 likes

          • StewGreen says:

            If would be one thing if he/she actually contested people’s arguments
            But no he resorts to attacking their personality the Ad Hom fallacy

            His nasty words are intimidation, aimed at getting you to self censor.
            .. ie. it’s BULLYING
            for although the libmob claim to be the tolerant #BeKind ones
            … their actions prove otherwise

            To me the more he speaks the more he shows himself up
            #Projection is a libmob characteristic.

               8 likes

        • G says:

          Fed,
          Yes, I agree totally with Scrob. Get rid of this pr+ck! His sort would abolish whatever remains of ‘Free Speech’ so that objection can be overruled. Do us all a favour please

             22 likes

          • Scroblene says:

            Thanks, G. I’m so old I sometimes forget what friends are really for!

               7 likes

          • Fedup2 says:

            G
            As I reply you got 12 likes . There’s a bit of a film called ‘king rat ‘ where a character makes a speech about surviving by hating a particular individual – in a way The Troll performs a kind of similar function -and it’s obvious that the troll gets off on attention otherwise it would not keep coming back and running away – there’s a few like that .

            As moderator I read or at least scan everything that goes through the site if only to vet the limit of the language .

            Now the troll is at the other end of the spectrum to me because I’m very Right . And I would have thought that what is happening to UK – which is being state run in the space of a week – would be a wet dream for his type .

            Fortunately the Tory majority is so big that when these measures are no longer needed the socialist measures will be removed and we can get back to a form capitalism again .

            Although I fear the appetite for collectivism might stick around – I guess it depends on how long the Chinese virus remains a substantial threat .

            I think there will be a workable antidote within weeks and safety rules will be relaxed due to the need ( I know WHO says – a year ).

               7 likes

            • Banania says:

              That is a perceptive comment. I was wondering about his instinctive enjoyment of the crisis. It is the love of authoritarianism that drove the Remain reaction and is now at the heart of Hate Free Speech and Impose Lockdown.

                 5 likes

        • Oldspeaker says:

          Well said Scrob.

             14 likes

          • Scroblene says:

            Old, I’m with you here!

            What a useless space that little dickhead is, I hope he feels a little sad that normal people also place him (her) as an utter idiot!

               11 likes

        • davylars says:

          Maxicony.
          That is just plain nasty.
          Absolute no reason to make such a vile comment.
          I am sure even those who exist in your left wing bubble would be disgusted at how low you have stepped this time. To repeat what Scrob says F##K OFf

             27 likes

          • Scroblene says:

            Thanks Davy!

            C***s usually make normal blokes stand to ATTENTION!

            (My old flatmate told me that back in 1970, I’ve never forgotten so thanks for the memory)!

               6 likes

      • G.W.F. says:

        Maxicony,

        I usually laugh at your poorly written comments and try to extract something amusing.
        But this comment reveals that you are a piece of shit, just f++ck off out of our lives.

           26 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Deborah, just as professionals in many other occupations would say “We got on with the job, we may have felt worried, fearful, whatever. We just got on and did the job.”

      I asked friends, long time in the medical world, about ER, the Michael Crichton TV series. (I’d heard stories about how it was filmed, what the actors and actresses were made to do, etc.) “How realistic is it? How true to real life in an Emergency Room is it?” All the replies were: “Very or highly true and realistic.”

      PS: Ignore maxi, he’s a fraud.

      PPS: If the Charity Shops are still open, then a box set of ‘ER’ would keep you going for several weeks of isolation. Highly recommended.

         14 likes

  18. gb123 says:

    My advice would be to download things you want to watch later on YouTube and the paid services as bandwidth and video quality may get limited. Netflix are already doing this. There are a few solutions to do this for free if you look them up.

       10 likes

  19. Guest Who says:

    Here’s Anthony.

    Here’s another ‘reporter’. From MSNBC. Whose opinions are his own… well, someone else’s. Spot the difference,

       8 likes

  20. Guest Who says:

    BBC News

    Experts say the UK and US lost an opportunity to prepare for the outbreak – but that it’s not too late.

    ***

    Oo… the bbc has found more of those experts, who say things they can turn into what they call ‘news’.

       21 likes

  21. Foscari says:

    The Berlin Philharmonic are giving a 30 day free pass to their digital
    channel on the internet for all of you that like classical
    music.
    If you do may I recommend the Rachmaninov
    3rd piano concerto in the Berlin Park played by Yefim Bronfman,
    You aint seen anything like it. 20,000 folk and Sir Simon Rattle
    the conductor are amazed at Bronfman’s virtuosity.

    If you don’t like classical music and are feeling depressed
    may I suggest you listen to the Bruckner 7 concert with
    Celibidache conducting. The Romanian was the first principle
    conductor of the Berlin Phil after the war in 1945 when Berlin
    was destroyed. He left in 1954 and swore he would never return.
    He did in 1992 to conduct the orchestra.
    Bruckner is an acquired taste. He is my favourite composer
    of symphonies. But I am afraid he was also Hitler’s favourite,
    and the 7th symphony was played on Berlin radio
    on the announcement of his death.
    If you cannot stand classical music may I suggest you listen to
    this concert. It may change your mind. But if you are really
    feeling miserable over the state we are in, you may want to commit suicide after listening to 11/2 hours of Bruckner!
    Actually this freebie is an absolute gem. And if you want
    to see yours truly. Check the ending of the Bruckner 9 from
    2012 with Simon Rattle conducting. At the end you can see me as the four composers
    who reconstructed the final movement, because Bruckner died
    before he completed it, come down the stairs. That’s me with the bald head in the third row of the stalls on the right hand side.
    That’s if you haven’t committed suicide already!!

       17 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Foscari, an excellent recommendation. Well done.

      Personally, I prefer Bruch to Bruckner, esp. the Violin Concerto but am happy to listen to the latter’s work.

      Do you do Extras work?

         2 likes

      • Foscari says:

        Up2snuff-No work at all at the moment. Except the
        football odds for Belarus !! They are the only league in
        Europe still playing !
        The Berlin Phil Digital Internet sight is a treasure trove
        of great classical music , and more light stuff like their
        concerts in the park .
        One of my favourites also is the VERDI Requiem under Mariss
        Janson the great Latvian conductor who died recently.
        The quality of the sound on this usually high subscription channel
        is fantastic, even on crap lap tops.30 days free for everybody who
        likes classical music it is a must.
        As for “Extras Work” to be honest I always wanted to have a bash
        at being a stand up comedian .
        The nearest I ever got to this was at PISA airport . I was
        a consultant for the Italian government on helping make their
        gambling in Italy legal and not run by the Mafia.
        I was waiting for a colleague to arrive from England. And as
        I waited in the terminal MEL BROOKS the film producer and
        director was walking towards me. I Said to him ” I know you’.
        Your either Mel Brooks or Giuseppe Verdi.” VERDI? he said ”
        His been dead for 100 years! So I said ” then you must be Mel Brooks. Do I know you?” he said.
        ” I am Barry Bernstein ” I answered. ” Your dad was AC, DC (Lennie Bernstein). This banter went on for about 10 minutes.
        By that time there was a crowd of photographers around us.
        Mel , we were on first name terms, asked me
        if he could use my Verdi joke as a one liner. He told me that
        he was making a film in Italy and would I like to come along
        and watch and maybe be an EXTRA!! That’s as near as I got
        to what you suggested. By the way VERDI is my favourite opera
        composer. Hence the Foscari. ” I due Foscari ” is a rather obscure
        early Verdi opera.
        Who needs to watch” the enemy of the State” the BBC when
        one can listen to music composed by the likes of Beethoven,
        Brahms, Bruckner, Mozart etc etc played by the finest orchestra
        in the World !
        .

           5 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          First line gave me a chuckle, Fos. A friend has done some extras work, including appearing in Casualty and other TV and also film stuff, hence my question after you referred being background for a shot of the four composers. Me reading your original post too fast & sketchily probably.

          My late father was totally classical and light classical-oriented so I have inherited a lot of vinyl and will be working my way through them. He was a big Beethoven fan. I’m a big Bach fan, especially when played by the Jacques Loussier trio. Jacques died not that long ago. BBC made very little fuss unlike when some relatively obscure contemporary American musician dies.

          As to Bruch and Violin Concerto No1, I was in the audience for a young Yin Lee performing, with Yehudi Menuhin conducting the RPO, a long time ago.

             2 likes

    • Deborah says:

      Thanks Foscari for the recommendation, listening to Schumann as I type from the Berlin Phil, Simon Rattle conducting – fabulous.

         2 likes

      • Foscari says:

        Deborah-Yes the Schumann concert is terrific. I remember Simon Rattle conducting Scumann with his Birmingham orchestra many
        years ago. I don’t listen to Radio 3 much anymore. Or as we called it
        the third programme. It’s become like the rest of BBC virtue signalling. As if we need BIG BROTHER from the diversity dept to
        educate us on what music we are supposed to listen to.
        If you haven’t heard it the Bruckner 6 is probably his most
        original composition. If you listen to it see how many Blockbuster
        film scores you can find similarity to. I will give you a start
        Lawrence of Arabia and the Big Country. The end of the
        first movement is glorious. I stopped counting at 30 modulations
        in the most sonorous coda you are ever likely to hear.
        I am an atheist . But Bruckner’s music makes me understand
        Bruckner’s belief in God.

           1 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          Funny thing, the thinking about classical music had Georgio Allegri’s Miserere pop into my mind just minutes ago and is driving this post. It is Allegri’s setting for a choral presentation of Psalm 51, a Psalm of contrition written by King David after being confronted with his sin by Nathan the priest.

          It is a wonderful piece, especially the Kings College Choir performance conducted by Sir David Willcocks. It must be on YouTube. Highly recommended, especially at this time.

             0 likes

  22. Oaknash says:

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/21/macrons-france-seizes-lorries-carrying-130000-masks-to-british-hospitals/

    Not a BBC story as far as I know.
    I wonder how the BBC will be covering this one.
    So nice to have such good “friends” in Europe.

    I seem to remember this particular “good friend” was still supplying Argentina with Exocet’s during the Falklands war.

    Some things never change.

       38 likes

    • theisland says:

      As IDS said: “This shows you all you need to know about European co-operation.”

         13 likes

  23. Guest Who says:

    OT, but the irony of ‘essential working’ media folk tweeting how they are the only people on the tube as others stay isolated is rather special.

       8 likes

  24. Guest Who says:

    Also… media… essentially…

       21 likes

    • G says:

      GW,
      Classic example of the Marxist at work, an expert in the dark arts of, ‘Critical Theory’.

         11 likes

  25. Guest Who says:

    Substitute ‘BBC’ for ‘The Independent’.

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/lies-damned-lies-and-journalism/?

    Which the BBC often does if it senses need for a degree of separation.

    Sources say.

       12 likes

  26. Doobster78 says:

    10 minutes on BBC breakfast.

    Mike Pence is now the main man for some reason according to the BBC . President Trump relegated by the BBC .

    President Trump tweeting about a possible drug breakthrough was irresponsible and bad. How dare he give people hope !!!

    Germany bailout plans today. They will be much better than the UK. Much more for the self employed. How great they are. Apparently per the bbc, the UK will be watching closely and may get some ideas !!!!

    There we have it, 10 minutes viewing and as per it’s Trump bad, every other country does everything better than us !!!!

    Sickening agenda.

       48 likes

  27. Guest Who says:

    #trustedreporterproblems

       8 likes

    • G says:

      GW,
      He’s totally correct.
      Reality check.
      All the best scams I’ve ever known to be perpetrated are simple. Classic example: so-called, ‘Climate Change’. No body can deny that fact, the ‘Devil is in the detail’ as the more astute will understand.
      So, on to another scam: We are a matter of 2 weeks away from our own ‘Italian style’ tsunami of deaths. ‘Protect the NHS’?
      There’s no cure for this chinese biological weapon so, if it’s going to float around for a year/18 months or even 2years, that means that you me and everybody else has to catch it in any event. All the Heath Robinson nonsense of ‘Summer temperatures’ simply aint gonna work.
      Fact is, the Government don’t want the public aware by hiding behind the illusion that ‘flattening the curve’ will work. You can flatten all you want but the volumes remain the same as any child will understand playing around with a partially inflated balloon. They know that and are likely more concerned about the appearance of lorry loads of dead bodies and ad hoc mortuaries being set up. But now, ‘stay at home’, likely to be, ‘die at home’.
      I referred a couple of weeks ago, here, the call in the 14 th Century. ‘Bring out your dead’.

         15 likes

      • Despairada says:

        Might it be the case that if the rate of transmission is reduced by social isolation, the total numbers infected should be fewer and the area under the curve should be less i.e. a smaller sombrero as well as a flatter one.

        I feel disquiet about this mass indolence brought about by closing workplaces. Most people won’t be able to cope and will go wandering about and infecting each other anyway.

        If the isolation works, there might be enough of the virus left so that when we all go out blinking into the light (metaphorically speaking) if will start up again.

           2 likes

  28. theleftwilleatitself says:

    In response to Fedup’s top 🔝 question /point, any Columbo you can find 👍
    Well nearly any one, ‘Last Salute to the Commodore’ is a wierd one!
    We watched ‘Playback’ yesterday which was the first one we ever watched and it’s still one of my favourites 🏆

       6 likes

    • Absolute Shower says:

      “Columbo” is on 5USA all day today, ending with Patrick Macgoohan in “By Dawn’s Early Light”.

         7 likes

  29. Nibor says:

    Something to do in the quiet period ?

    Write out a list of what the past governments , local government , quangos , charities , slebs and clerissy have been/are doing wrong .

    Write out what should be done instead .

    For example on my list would be ;

    Expanding the population so that we get reduced wages , a housing shortage , land taken out of food production , more mouths to feed etc .

    What should be done would be ;

    No more immigration . All illegals deported , all foreign criminals deported , all official communications in English or Welsh , no multiculturism , neighbourhoods not communities , patriotism .

    A lesser thing would be the lane markings on the M25-A12 roundabout , but you get the drift .

       28 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Nibor, maybe we should merge our ‘little lists’ ?

      There’s a revival of home brewing on the way. (See previous Thread)

      I’ve been musing on whether our present Government might re-think John Major’s strange move to 24/7 culture with the Sunday Trading Act 1994. This was completely at odds with his so-called desire to be ‘Green’ from two years earlier.

         10 likes

    • Emmanuel Goldstein says:

      Nibor.
      To save paper it would be better to list what that lot have got right.
      You wouldn’t need much and many trees would be spared.

         9 likes

  30. fakenewswatcher says:

    A little lecture from Michael Murporgo on R4 on how divided we have been, and how this crisis ‘brings us together’.
    I didn’t think we were that divided, at least not the way he meant.
    So I doubt we will need ‘bringing together’ quite in the way he meant.
    I have always felt part of a larger whole, one that has existed for many hundreds of years. I’m sure many indigenous Brits will have felt the same.
    Sorry for you, if you haven’t, Michael.

       26 likes

    • G says:

      Fnw,
      “…..how this crisis ‘brings us together’.”
      My thoughts go out to Michael Murporgo and all the members of his family in these very difficult times………..

         10 likes

      • StewGreen says:

        Michael Murporgo’s family are almost billionaires
        not so much due to him, but cos his father-in-law started Penguin books.

           2 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      fnw, I was struck by how bitter, mean-spirited and divisive Michael Murporgo’s piece was.

      I went and looked at Psalm 118. Verses 5 and 12 seemed peculiarly applicable to me and MM.

      I switched off part way through his piece. It was not helpful.

         7 likes

  31. G says:

    The Chinese, ‘Soft shoe shuffle’ –
    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15776/coronavirus-china-propaganda

       7 likes

  32. AsISeeIt says:

    Remember those happy bygone days when a Corbyn government was the scariest prospect on the horizon…?

    Apologies to Clive Dunn

    I’ve been sitting here all day, thinking
    Same old things for years again, thinking
    Now my days are nearly gone, Momentum lingers on
    Thoughts of when I was a Leaver

    Penny farthings on the street riding
    McDonnell’s economic ideas are funny things, frightening
    Tax and Spend and Nationalisation
    Open Borders, free NHS lollipops
    Comics banned for all different things

    Corbyn, Corbyn, you’re lovely
    That’s what we all think of you
    Corbyn, Corbyn, you’re lovely
    That’s what we all think of you
    Corbyn, Corbyn

    IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah are all my friends, I‘ve said so
    Israelis, Zionists and Jews, less so
    There’s Lady Nugee, Hilary Benn… Diane Abbott made us laugh
    Silently falling apart
    Familiar things I keep around, near me
    Memories of my younger days, clearly
    Seems like I’ve lost my mind
    Everyday I find, Marxist thoughts of when I was a boy

    Corbyn, Corbyn, you’re lovely
    That’s what we all think of you
    Corbyn, Corbyn, you’re lovely
    That’s what we all think of you
    Corbyn, Corbyn

       17 likes

  33. Darcy3 says:

    It might be worth mentioning to the bbbc and their poorly educated staff while stuck at home about a device I often use it is called a book:

    Books are incredibly portable, especially smaller paperbacks

    Books do not require batteries or any electricity to use

    Books are not fragile (at least relatively speaking in comparison to electronic gadgets)

    Books are easier on your eyes for long periods of reading (again, in comparison to LCD displays for example)

    Books are shareable and re-saleable – the only “compatibility” issue is the language it’s written in

    Books are CHEAPER. A device that costs £100 Are you kidding me?

    Books have a faster operating system – I can flip pages without an hourglass or having to wait for my eyes to render the new page

    Books have better browse-ability – I can thumb through pages very quickly and can easily eyeball 1/3 of the way through a book or the last 25% of the book because the information I want was somewhere in that section.

    Books have low-tech, cheap built-in DRM – it’s a pain in the arse to copy them….doable but a pain

    I could think of more, but I’m too lazy

       26 likes

    • john in cheshire says:

      The pity is that once this virus situation has passed, the racist far-left bbc will still be there. Untouched by any of it and unchanging in its bile, vitriol and propaganda. And still unwanted and hated by many if not more of the population of our country.

         15 likes

  34. theisland says:

    Wish we had journalists/presenters like Rita.

    “… you would have to be a certifiable moron to see criticism of the Chinese government or acknowledgement of the the origins of this virus as racist”

       36 likes

  35. AnneG says:

    Hello All
    For those needing something to watch Fox News have announced that its live stream is now free due to the China virus
    https://www.foxnews.com/go

    Free of BBC Bias

       20 likes

    • Oldspeaker says:

      In the spirit of the time the bbc could allow it’s back catalogue onto youtube, you know, all that stuff we’ve already paid for. Jonsey telling everyone not to panic could be just the tonic. That’s another thing, I don’t remember people being so easily rattled, being stoked up maybe. Noticed erstwhile liberals proposing some very illiberal measures, be reassuring to hear at least one beardy weirdy pipe up in dissent.

         13 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Johnners and Aggers and a certain incidental commentary item …..

        … bet that’s on YouTube anyway.

        If people aren’t laughing along with it and feeling better for that, then they are probably dead already.

           8 likes

  36. Beltane says:

    Marr’s star guest, Sadiq Khan, took every opportunity to take digs at the government without directly answering a single question, and while making much of the deeply offensive fact that he has been excluded from COBRA meetings.
    I’d imagine there are very good reasons for excluding London’s global little mayor from such intimate gatherings. Even in times of ultimate crisis commonsense still applies.
    Earlier the FT editor made much of government u-turns and vacillation, showing how ‘not pulling together’ remains a priority for the people who evidently think they count.

       32 likes

    • john in cheshire says:

      These gobshites should be made to demonstrate how they are personally ‘ pulling together’.

      But first they need to define what they mean by ‘pulling together’, because I suspect that just like the terms right wing and hate speech, pulling together means anything and nothing.

         19 likes

  37. Emmanuel Goldstein says:

    I have been doing my shopping along with the government guidelines by only buying what I needed.
    I intend to go to Sainsburys oldies shopping tomorrow. I’m in the pensioner group.
    What do I do.
    Buy 7 x 1 pint milk cartons to last me a week (if allowed) or just 3 and have to visit at least one more time.
    I could buy 2 or 3 large milks but am not sure if I can buy 7 small ones.

    Have you seen that post going round on Facebook showing about half a dozen ‘enrichers’ with vans full to the brim with toilet rolls, selling them off on street stalls.

    Can anyone offer any light at the end of the tunnel. Does warm weather kill off this virus.
    It’s happening in far warmer and hotter places all over the world. Hasn’t Australia had record hot temperatures recently.
    With the best brains on the planet working on this there’s a fabulous payout waiting for the cure or a vaccine.
    I wonder how it will end.
    This time next year will we be laughing about how exaggerated it all was or will it be Mad Max.

       28 likes

    • Old Goat says:

      It’s a late starter, so it’s hardly likely to disappear come the summer, as other, seasonal flu viruses do. It’ll come, do it’s worse, and pass in much the same way. Delaying tactics, or self-isolation, or half-hearted “lock-downs” won’t make a scrap of difference in the long run – many will catch it, and numbers will die, sooner or later – that much is inevitable.

      The quicker it is permitted to do its worst, the quicker it will be over – for now. That may seem callous, but that, I think, is the way it is.

         19 likes

      • Jeff says:

        Part of the problem is that Britain is desperately over populated. We’ve got the same size population as France and about a quarter of the space. It makes isolation quite tricky.
        At this time of the year the NHS is always stretched with serious cases of flu and pneumonia. If coronavirus can be slowed down until the influenza spike eases then the NHS stands a fighting chance of being able to handle it.
        If it is allowed to “do its worst” there’s no chance of our health service coping.

           13 likes

  38. Old Goat says:

    Lubos Motl, well worth a read…

    https://motls.blogspot.com/2020/03/great-viral-depression.html#more

       5 likes

  39. richard D says:

    With all the time in the world to ponder things….I suppose it’s too much to ask whether Gary Lineker, in the complete absence of any football worldwide, is being asked to have a ‘furlough’ (preferably a permanent one) from BBC employment, at 80% of his salary up to a limit of £2,500 a month….but hold on – he’s probably one of those ‘self-employed contractors’ that seem to permanently inhabit BBC corridors, avoiding taxes all over the place – so realistically shouldn’t he be on the £94 per week gig ?

    Thought not….

    On further pondering – isn’t that twat one of the bigger BBC hypocrites, who think the BBC cannot possibly provide a service unless it is fully funded from the public purse, whilst making oodles of cash from Walkers Crisp adverts.

       25 likes

  40. Swelter says:

    Comforting in these dark days to see business as usual at the bBBC headline on their website trumpeting Racist Attack on Chinese because of corona virus.

       15 likes

  41. pugnazious says:

    The Coronavirus has killed 233 people in the UK so far…undoubtedly more will die…but seasonal flu kills on average 17,000 per year….with no governments imposing martial law.

    In 2018 flu apparently created a warzone in California…and yet no closure of the state or country….

    California hospitals face a ‘war zone’ of flu patients — and are setting up tents to treat them

    ‘“This has been hands down the worst flu I’ve ever dealt with.”

    The huge numbers of sick people are also straining hospital staff who are confronting what could become California’s worst flu season in a decade.

    Hospitals across the state are sending away ambulances, flying in nurses from out of state and not letting children visit their loved ones for fear they’ll spread the flu. Others are canceling surgeries and erecting tents in their parking lots so they can triage the hordes of flu patients.’

    Across the world national leaders are closing down democracy and their countries in a way Putin could only ever have dreamed of with hardly a whisper of opposition from the media.

    But….Are the media worms starting to turn?

    When Boris had the temerity, whilst also doing over 120 media interviews during the election, to also campaign on social media the BBC called him a dictator, Andrew Neil castigated him for for refusing to be interviewed by him. Neil, possibly somewhat surprisingly, declaring that by doing this Boris was undermining democracy…never mind the 120 odd interviews he’d already done. Nick Robinson declared…

    ”It ain’t democracy, it is a form of propaganda used by dictators down the ages.”

    And yet when Boris actually does morph into a literal dictator[benevolent or not], taking for himself enormous powers, closing the whole country and essentially destroying the economy, the BBC says nothing. Not a single criticism of the narrative that we must take this draconian action to save the country.

    Of course the BBC does criticise Boris, but it’s political, it’s anti-Boris not anti-his course of action….indeed the BBC et al demand he go further and impose ever harsher measures. The BBC questions not the direction of travel but Boris’s leadership, how well he is actually doing this, how competent he is…never if he should actually be doing what he is doing. You can see the approach used by the BBC in black and white in the Guardian as Marina Hyde basically emits a stream of insulting invective against Boris but doesn’t actually have anything of substance to say.

    The Media, with the BBC playing no small part itself, along with weak and spineless politicians, have been driving the narrative of a world at war with the coronavirus and that this is an apocalyptic event with the need forever more drastic and severe measures to win the battle. But of course all too much of that is hype…the media, BBC included, love a good headline and are not really interested in the health of the nation.

    They all demanded schools close and when they did you saw the BBC suddenly start wailing about what parents would do, vulnerable pupils and exams missed….but that is what they demanded.

    Witness a good example in the Mail yesterday….headline on frontpage after massive pressure on government to close pubs etc…they ‘finally’ get their wish as at long last…

    Shutdown…..PM finally orders thousands of pubs, restaurants, cafes and gyms to close.’

    Inside…the reality of that decision made by Boris to appease a headline grabbing media…

    ‘Bodyblow for businesses as pubs, cafes, restaurants and gyms forced to shut’

    Question though, are people now asking if the ruinous damage being done by Boris is worth it? Is it the right response, is it appropriate, rational and proportionate?

    Here’s Peter Hitchen in the Mail…

    Is shutting down Britain – with unprecedented curbs on ancient liberties – REALLY the best answer?

    He thinks not. The Telegraph frontpage is now full of articles rasing questions about the wisdom of destroying the economy making possibly millions unemployed, ruining lives and making people homeless.

    The BBC…where’s the BBC on this? The government is imposing extraordinarily draconian and restrictive measures upon the population and the BBC says absolutely nothing….it sees nothing wrong in the direction of travel…no cries of ‘dictator’ or ‘Back to the 30’s’ here. The only thing the BBC can criticise is that the measures seem unsustainable long term…not that they are in anyway wrong, just that they may not be viable for a long period of time….they merely suggests we need an exit strategy..

    ‘What countries need is an “exit strategy” – a way of lifting the restrictions and getting back to normal.

    But the coronavirus is not going to disappear.

    If you lift the restrictions that are holding the virus back, then cases will inevitably soar.

    “We do have a big problem in what the exit strategy is and how we get out of this,” says Mark Woolhouse, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh.

    “It’s not just the UK, no country has an exit strategy.”

    It is a massive scientific and societal challenge.’

    The only exit strategies are one, let it run its course, vulnerable groups take necessary precautions, the fit do what they can to minimise exposure to those groups whilst gaining ‘herd immunity’ for themselves, and that the government ploughs massive resources into the NHS to cope. Two…Close the country completely until a vaccine is produced and ‘herd immunity’ can be ‘manufactured’ by injection….of course they say that may take 18 months….meanwhile the economy, jobs, lives and marriages…???.

    So in reality the ony viable course of action is the first one, let it run its course…as the government originally intended until cries of ‘Tory Genocide’ from the Left broke them….now we have no real solution as even the BBC admits.

    But now even the BBC worm may be turning ever so slightly as Nick Triggle starts to ask questions…

    ‘Would these people be dying anyway?

    The figures for coronavirus are eye-watering. But what is not clear – because the modellers did not map this – is to what extent the deaths would have happened without coronavirus.

    Of course, this will never truly be known until the pandemic is over, which is why modelling is very difficult and needs caveats.

    But given that the old and frail are the most vulnerable, would these people be dying anyway?’

    More importantly he asks the most relevant question…is the ruinous policy really worth it?

    ‘What else has not been done is a proper assessment of the economic and social costs of the measures taken, which themselves will put lives and health at risk.

    As we get deeper into this crisis, we will need much greater intelligence on just how many lives are truly being saved, and compare that to the wider cost to society, so the government and the public can weigh up the best course of action.’

    You can read an article on this from a week ago suggesting we are reacting to an apocalypse that may not exist…

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

    ‘A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data.

    Draconian countermeasures have been adopted in many countries. If the pandemic dissipates — either on its own or because of these measures — short-term extreme social distancing and lockdowns may be bearable. How long, though, should measures like these be continued if the pandemic churns across the globe unabated? How can policymakers tell if they are doing more good than harm?

    Vaccines or affordable treatments take many months (or even years) to develop and test properly. Given such timelines, the consequences of long-term lockdowns are entirely unknown.

    With lockdowns of months, if not years, life largely stops, short-term and long-term consequences are entirely unknown, and billions, not just millions, of lives may be eventually at stake.

    If we decide to jump off the cliff, we need some data to inform us about the rationale of such an action and the chances of landing somewhere safe.’

       20 likes

  42. pugnazious says:

    LOL…as ‘millions face losing their jobs’ due to Boris the dictator the BBC’s Andrew Neil is ony concerned with puffing for The Spectator…where is the sanctimonious, sententious little lecture that he did during the election demanding an interview with Boris ‘in the name of democracy’? Why is Boris suddenly untouchable and why is democracy suddenly so disposable for the BBC when the country, freedom and the economy are being destroyed?….

       6 likes

  43. Guest Who says:

    Jez is in charge.

       5 likes

  44. Guest Who says:

    From the supposedly essential service that brings you pictures of an artfully-placed loo roll on a mile long shelf, and Vox pops from bimbos refusing to miss arse day at the gym.

       3 likes

  45. pugnazious says:

       13 likes

  46. Despairada says:

    Did someone mention the Mad Max Scenario.

    Well, as long as all the men look like this

    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRxK1FVz-nG1uSfp60vn9AacC8lCeJ8iVB9fI3q4Ulbvyo0yVKa

       3 likes

  47. pugnazious says:

    Muslims never lose an opportunity to make it about them…apparently their refusal to accept social distancing, their failure to learn english and their refusal to comply with British laws is the government’s fault…nothing to do with them guv…

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-muslim-mosque-closure-prayer-nhs-a9411936.html

    ‘Britain’s Muslims are amongst the hardest hit by the Covid-19 pandemic – senior NHS officials that Muslims are particularly vulnerable to coronavirus.

    To those inside Muslim communities like me, this is shocking but not surprising. This needs to be recognised more broadly before it is too late. If Muslims feel let down, excluded or forgotten by the government response, there will be repercussions that last longer than the outbreak.’

    Haven’t looked on the BBC site but can’t be long before this is a an ‘issue’ there also.

       19 likes

  48. pugnazious says:

    Harrabin full of sh*te…as always…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51906530

    Climate change: The rich are to blame, international study finds

    Actually it is the ‘poor’ who are most responsible for climate change as their wages increased enormously and they could then buy the things that ony the rich could afford before….and factories pump out the goods to satisfy their demands. I’m sure Harrabin would love to go back to a time when only the rich could have an easy life, freedom to travel and those luxuries like enough food, medicine, housing and schools.

    Coronavirus as a trojan horse for climate extremism…

    And the young are being sacrificed to protect the old…why is the BBC /left so desperate to kill off the old? You know….those oldies who fought and defeated real fascism and then paid for the privilege in their taxes for decades after…

    Is Parris [Remainer] actually saying we shoud allow the old to die off? Why is Harrabin ‘approving’ of this by giving such dangerous nonsense an uncritical platform?

       18 likes

    • Jeff says:

      I think you’re right. In a roundabout way Parris is saying that the old are expendable and he’s spicing his bile with a little bit of division using housing and pensions.
      The elderly are such an easy target. This article is nasty and divisive.
      In 1939 he could have used the same argument to appease Hitler.
      I think Matthew has become a rather sad and embittered old queen.

         11 likes

  49. pugnazious says:

    Hilarious….Harrabin applauds some critical thinking on the coronavirus response…from the BBC lol…

    Triggle is actually asking if that repsonse is the correct one…is it in fact worth closing the country to save a relatively small number of lives? Can’t imagine Harrabin approves of this….he can’t have read it to the end….

    ‘‘What else has not been done is a proper assessment of the economic and social costs of the measures taken, which themselves will put lives and health at risk.

    As we get deeper into this crisis, we will need much greater intelligence on just how many lives are truly being saved, and compare that to the wider cost to society, so the government and the public can weigh up the best course of action.’

       7 likes

  50. StewGreen says:

    Blast from the past
    Dec 2018 Sun story about how kids get to 11 with only ever had female teachers

       8 likes