Midweek Open Thread

 

As Jeremy Bowen tells us of the charismatic, legendary, young revolutionary freedom fighter that was Arafat who took on the ominous might of the Israeli oppressors, becoming the father of the Palestinian nation that genuine peacemakers would miss upon his death [a death possibly, probably, due to Israeli poisoning]…quickly brushing over Munich and all that, we can thank our lucky stars to have such a trustworthy, accurate and impartial news broadcaster that fights the tidal wave of right-wing [and it is ony right-wing] fake news that engulfs us with its own brand of truth and real honest news.  Thank God.  However if you should spot any isolated occasions where the BBC lets slip its high standards please be good enough to identify them here…..all yours….

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437 Responses to Midweek Open Thread

  1. ScottishCalvin says:

    Were a DUP deal to kick off real problems in Northern Ireland, I suppose I’d have no option but reuse all those old jokes from the 90s, like how the Irish dance the way they do because they’ve had their arms decommissioned. Or how Bill Clinton took his saxophone to Northern Ireland because he thought Tony Blair told him over the phone that he was there to support the Corrs…

    My cartoon on the week and the DUP deal

       30 likes

  2. Tabs says:

    BBC1 Question Time tonight was a disgrace. Emily Thornberry only got to speak 90% of the entire air time. Come on BBC we want to hear a Labour loud mouth 100% of the time repeating the same crap again and again and again.

       111 likes

    • nogginator says:

      Might have helped their case if a Tory would have actually answered a bloody question.
      Playing politics once again … they seem incapable of “getting it”
      the games changing … drain the swamp!

         51 likes

      • Al Shubtill says:

        WTF was that weird American [email protected] doing on there?

           28 likes

        • nogginator says:

          He seemed to have some kind of little cue card, with a couple of lines ion, to talk to himself about, so strange no engagement.
          Expand that to a full sheet of paper, eye watering amounts of dodgy backhanders, no concern for anyone but himself … and some perverted delusion that its your “right” to rule.
          … Number ten awaits

             19 likes

  3. Deborah says:

    Last night (Wednesday) the BBC had witnesses telling us how they saw people jumping out of windows at the block of flats, so how it the death count is only 17 to date? I would have thought those bodies would have been quickly found. Were the BBC lucky to find these witnesses or were these people saying the lines the BBC wanted to hear? Tonight the BBC were interviewing 2 muslim people who had lost family members. How big were these flats? The man who had lost his parents and 3 siblings with whom he lived i.e. 6 adults in one flat; the other was a man, wife and their baby lost and 2 children found, so 5 in that flat. Most flats I know are 2 bedroomed and if you are lucky 3; were the ones here bigger or was there serious overcrowding? And how did the Italian architect and her boyfriend able to get a flat ahead of others? I have heard of an English family (from a friend who works for a charity in the area) who has 5 children and the parents living in one room, surely they were more deserving? But the BBC doesn’t pose these questions preferring Mark Easton to pontificate.

       99 likes

    • Ian Rushlow says:

      Plod on the news today, stating how ‘Tower victims may never be identified’. Indeed not – there won’t be any official records of all who lived there, due to illegal sub-letting and presence of illegal immigrants (sorry: ‘Undocumented migrants in search of a better life’). The entire tragedy is a microcosm of what is going on in Britain today; in the meantime, politicians look to make capital and shift blame; public enquiries will be organised to delay matters by years; those more closely involved will mourn their dead. All politicians of a liberal persuasion and immigration advocates should hang their heads in shame.

         83 likes

      • Dystopian says:

        As said, I wonder if now it is ok to check their teeth and maybe at least we will know how old they were if not who they were.

           25 likes

      • Jerry Owen says:

        Ian
        You are so right about the microcosm bit.
        I said to my wife last night that we have mass uncontrolled immigration, thus a shortage of housing ( why do they have to live in London anyway ), which means that people are crammed into buildings that should have been knocked down years ago for more modern accommodation. However this isn’t happening as there is no logistical way that we can knock down buildings like this in London without creating huge problems as to where to house people ( immigrants ).
        Ultimately blind Liberalism led to this catastrophe.

           30 likes

  4. BRISSLES says:

    Tonight I saw the excellent musical ‘Judy’ at the Arts Theatre. The Director gave a heart felt plea at the end for kindly donations to help those who are now homeless from the fire disaster. All very charitable.

    However, despite all the reports of families losing everything – which clearly they have, I cannot help but think that with all the financial donations, mountains of goods and offers of accommodation that have been forthcoming, there could be a lot who will be far better off than before !! Of course those who have lost family members life will never be the same, but having a few bob in the bank that they never had before, with a better roof over their head, will greatly help.

       29 likes

    • Dystopian says:

      …and with all the refugees apparently living in the block, I can’t help but think are we being spun a yarn re immigrants not instantly getting housing /benefits etc.
      Also makes me wonder, as horrible as it is for all the innocents, if any of the residents were on the “watch list”

         33 likes

      • BRISSLES says:

        Well, there were 2 brothers from Afghanistan who arrived in 2014 and were housed in one flat. How many on the authentic housing list never got a look in to be a tenant ? and funny how accommodation is found quickly for migrants – and in one of the most expensive areas of the country, yet those born (and ancestors born) here are constantly told there is 100 year waiting list. The systems are corrupt as hell.

           32 likes

    • Moodswing6 says:

      Brisssles fantastic to hear that you saw the show Judy. I was fortunate to see it twice and thought it to be a fantastic production. Very gallant of the director to ask for donations. It’s a shame that Muslims don’t enjoy or support the arts. Am I wrong in saying that I rarely if ever see them when I go to the theatre. How can they become part of our culture when they reject it as decadent and very un Islamic.

      I’m still unable to comprehend how the fire was able to spread so fast and with such ferocity. Something does not add up here. As for the ethnicity of the building that’s the reality of this part of London. The estates house a majority of Muslims. It’s certainly the case in my building. As for ‘community spirit’ I live alone and could die on the 16th floor without being discovered for months. The one lovely couple on my floor I talk too are not Muslims. We are told that we must interact so we can get to know each other better but I have nothing in common with them. Can you imagine them wanting to befriend a gay Jewish man who loves the theatre. I should add that a young Muslim mother with 2 small children lives opposite me. I don’t see a partner and have no idea of the background. In the 2 years I’ve been here we have exchanged a polite few words. Recently I found out she has been unwell but the doctors can find nothing wrong. I was concerned at how hard it must be having to cope with the children and I wanted to do something. However I’m also going through a relapse of cancer so I just can’t find the energy to take someone else’s problems on board. I also find it very difficult to get past the top to toe clothing. I feel inside me this is wrong but she is Muslim and we are on different planets.

         44 likes

      • BRISSLES says:

        Moodwing6……… As for ‘community spirit’ I live alone and could die on the 16th floor without being discovered for months…

        Sadly you are not alone in this, and you don’t have to live a solitary life in a high rise either. I thank my lucky stars that I don’t live in a multicultural area, but equally the 98% white village where I live, most of the residents work all day and seem to disappear at weekends. So my daily ‘conversation’ is confined to a few words with other dog walkers, or the checkout girl at the Co-op !!!! Its very true that different lives can have a common denominator of loneliness.

        As for the theatre, seeing any ethnic minority being part of the audience is a rarity – particularly the ones who live here; those I have seen are generally visiting tourists.

           26 likes

  5. Payne by name says:

    Blimey, what a depressing night of TV. I’ve tried to abstain from watching too much of the Beeb in the last week as I couldn’t bare an endless diatribe of ‘didn’t Corbyn do well’ and ‘Brexit is over’. However, I dipped my toe in tonight and I was just left frustrated. QT was the expected empty fluff and juvenile arguments but This Week and Portillo’s spineless capitulation was too much.

    The negativity and high jacking of Brexit by a host of ‘give everything away, let’s talk it all out and accept any deal that the EU give us’ is just heart breaking after the pride of the British public rejecting the EU.

    Our hard won victory will now be tossed aside and watered down to the point that all of the youth and virtue signalling remainers can claw back the high ground as the negotiations are deliberately over reported to saturation level in the hope that the mood swings to a ‘oh sod it, let’s just stay in the EU as it’s too boring and too much hassle.

    Once again ardent Leavers will be consigned to the basket of swivel eyed loons and fruitcakes and our views marginalised and ignored. Politically, I feel hollowed out.

       109 likes

    • lojolondon says:

      That is exactly their intention – 20 years of propaganda, followed by 6 months Project Fear, and now a year of Project regret / escape-our-fate / get-back-in will definitely leave it’s mark. Which is why the BBC needs to be defunded – for the sake of our democracy.

         87 likes

      • Wild says:

        Actually that is precisely what Portillo said – that remainers are doing their best to try and cancel the result of the referendum. He also noted that “Momentum” are Fascist (although he did not use that word) who will destroy this Country if they ever get into power. You are right about it being a depressing night, but it would have been more depressing if Portillo had sipped his Blue Nun and said that everything was OK. He also said that the current generation of politicians lack talent.

        I think Portillo is right when he views himself as unfit for politics. A great politician has to fight and win and not throw up their hands in despair. It is evident to anybody with eyes to see that May is not up to the job, and that Corbyn is a professional politician in the worst sense of the word, a narcissist who is too stupid to notice that he is a huckster.

        I think the BBC is a corrupting influence here. They don’t simply omit, and propagandize, they actively demonize anybody who does not share their vision; and corrupt those who see them for what they are but earn too good a living out of them to point out uncomfortable truths. Their overwhelming dominance is deeply pernicious.

        The first step towards healing is to state truths. Once you do this you can move forward. The BBC is the biggest obstacle to this, not simply because of their spin and disinformation, but because they couch their ignorance and bigotry as a superior conscience. Their opposition to Thatcher in the Eighties was not about their superior concern for the interests of the poor, it was precisely the opposite, it was driven by their desire to preserve the status quo.

        That is what the Global Warming obsession is about in the end, a complete lack of interest in reality, in the problems which really face us, dressed up as concern for the future. In the Thirties it was appeasement as the way to peace.

           44 likes

  6. Up2snuff says:

    Was feeling pretty gloomy after GE result and possible implications for Brexit through to Monday night. Strange but had Welsh hymn running through my head all day on Tuesday & brightened considerably:

    Arglwydd, arwain trwy’r anialwch,
    Fi, bererin gwael ei wedd,
    Nad oes ynof nerth na bywyd
    Fel yn gorwedd yn y bedd:
    Hollalluog, Hollalluog,
    Ydyw’r Un a’m cwyd i’r lan.
    Ydyw’r Un a’m cwyd i’r lan

    Agor y ffynhonnau melus
    ‘N tarddu i maes o’r Graig y sydd;
    Colofn dân rho’r nos i’m harwain,
    A rho golofn niwl y dydd;
    Rho i mi fanna, Rho i mi fanna,
    Fel na bwyf yn llwfwrhau.
    Fel na bwyf yn llwfwrhau.

    Pan yn troedio glan Iorddonen,
    Par i’m hofnau suddo i gyd;
    Dwg fi drwy y tonnau geirwon
    Draw i Ganaan — gartref clyd:
    Mawl diderfyn. Mawl diderfyn
    Fydd i’th enw byth am hyn.
    Fydd i’th enw byth am hyn.

    This is claimed to be a literal translation of the above into English:

    Lord, lead me through the wilderness,
    Me, a pilgrim of poor appearance,
    I don’t have strength or life in me,
    Like lying in the grave:
    Omnipotent, Omnipotent
    Is the one who brings me to the shore.
    Is the one who brings me to the shore.

    Open the sweet fountains
    Flowing from the Rock that is;
    Give a column of fire to lead me at night,
    And give a column of fog during the day.
    Give me manna. Give me manna,
    So that I shall not falter.
    So that I shall not falter.

    When I walk the bank of the Jordan,
    Cause all my fears to sink;
    Take me through the roughest waves
    Over to Canaan, a cosy home:
    Unending praise. Unending praise
    Will be to Your name for this.
    Will be to Your name for this.

    Then came the fire at Grenfell and fresh gloom.

    (With thanks to the Bread of Heaven web-site and Karl.)

       31 likes

  7. AsISeeIt says:

    Vigils, moments of silence, the floral tributes, acts of kindness from strangers, the community coming together… all this sounds pretty familiar…. but then there’s soon a different response…. cue the anger and demonstrations demanding something must be done.

    Isn’t it interesting how the pattern of BBC news response to the London tower block blaze at first follows the familiar pattern of aftermath of recent terror incidents but then takes a sharp detour into the politics of blame.

    A contradictory reaction because no one planned for this fire and yet there are those who are actively plotting further terror.

    Our BBC TV news bulletin at 7 am this morning leads with the stark exclamation: “Anger !….”

    BBC London helps those intending to protest against something the BBC don’t exactly specify by providing both the time and location of the planned demo. You can bet your Licence Fee the BBC cameras will be there later to capture the crowd they have bolstered for the protest and to move the story along.

    In sharp contrast with the aftermath of terror attacks BBC man Andy Moore tells us not that the community is getting back to normal – oh no, that’s for Manchester and Borough Market – our Andy tells us the survivors here are angry at ‘almost anyone in authority’.

    A slightly strange phrase there, but soon explained when we see footage of BBC favourite London Mayor Little Man Khan being harranged by locals. Our Andy of course implying that the saintly Khan unfairly got it in the ear for this tragedy – the further inplication is clearly that there is indeed someone else in authority who needs to be pilloried.

    My unsubstantiated bet is the dodgy cladding caused this – an unforseen consequence of the anxiety to comply with daft green global warming regulations?

       107 likes

    • Al Shubtill says:

      AISI – Solid post; I was thinking exactly the same: how no-one was permitted to be “angry” after the Muslim terrorist atrocities and yet al Beebus appear to be encouraging that very same emotion after this fire and directing it against those it has singled out for blame.

         100 likes

      • G.Shuttleworth says:

        A third one who spotted that. When white middle class people are killed, we’re supposed to feel “Love”. When Muslims/immigrants are killed, “Now the Anger”.

           79 likes

        • Payne by name says:

          Make that a fourth. I couldn’t help but wonder how aggrieved you would be if your loved one or friend had died or been injured in Manchester & London but you had been told that you had to bottle your anger and surpress your emotion in case you offended the oh so sensitive Muslim community.

          But to then see the rhetoric of ‘anger’ and ‘never again’ and finger pointing for what was ultimately an accident but you couldn’t use the same language for a deliberate act of terrorism carried out by a known threat and supported by a segment of a known community.

          No, let’s sweep that under the carpet, let’s ignore the targetable and identifiable threat but instead talk tough on blame and launching long and expensive inquests.

          And why do we need a long and full inquest. What’s wrong with getting a fire officer and other officials to make an honest and frank assessment. Why the fanfare, cost and length of overblown inquest. Just investigate the thing and report back.

             69 likes

    • Jo says:

      “In sharp contrast with the aftermath of terror attacks BBC man Andy Moore tells us not that the community is getting back to normal – oh no, that’s for Manchester and Borough Market”

      Excellent point.

         55 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      AISI, good post.

      The BBC’s memory loss problem will probably mean they try to blame the Tories for the Grenfell disaster. In reality all three major Parties, together with the Local Authourity under a variety of control, carry some blame but, during the longest period of continuous economic growth the UK has ever known, one Party in particular neither allowed Local Authorities to use proceeds of property sales to build more social housing nor allowed them extra borrowing or extra spending for refurbishments or extra safety measures at places like Grenfell Tower.

      The Grenfell refurbishment was carried out initially under the Coalition Government formed of Conservative and Liberal Democrat Parties.

         19 likes

      • Andy S. says:

        The one thing the BBC and the rest of the media have failed to mention is how the fire started in the first place. Who was responsible for the fire taking hold? We keep being told that there were no fire safety precautions in the building but surely there would have been fire extinguishers dotted about the tower block? If there were no fire precautions at all then the block wouldn’t have passed fire regulations. I understand the Fire Brigade check buildings like this block to see if they pass fire prevention regulations on a yearly basis. So who passed the building as fit for habitation? Labour and the media blaming the government, although predictable, is like blaming car manufacturers for a fatal multi-car pile up on the motorway and allowing the driver who caused it get away with no blame attached to his/her driving. I don’t believe the theory of the faulty fridge either. Some idiot Muslim breaking his Ramadan fast, allowing an open fire in the flat to get out of hand is the most likely cause. There is some talk of some Ethiopian taxi driver being the person responsible. A witness ( for what they are worth, lately) has said he ran to her flat opposite and told her of the fire in his flat. She could see the flames in his kitchen through the doors he had left open. She says he already had his bags packed and he took off after warning her and trying to call the emergency services. So he left all the doors of his burning flat open, made no attempt to extinguish the flames, packed his bags, told his neighbour and pissed off into the night! No wonder the media are ignoring the cause of the fire if this is true.

           37 likes

        • Moodswing6 says:

          Andy, I’m also not convinced at all about the exploding fridge. As for fire extinguishers being dotted around the building, I’ve just double checked my floor (level 16) There is a red padlocked box in the lift foyer marked dry riser outlet. This is obviously for fire brigade use. There are also locked doors in the apartment corridor marked fire doors and I think high pressure access pipes are behind these doors.
          As for accessible fire extinguishers for residents, none appear to be available. I would say that the reason being is that a lot of social tenants seem to have a great need to deface and destroy property. The mirrors in both lifts are completely defaced so any accesable fire extinguisher is likely to be used to cause damage and not be in place or workable when needed. This is my theory. My building was built in the 60’s and has undergone major refurbishment I think about 10 years ago. Grenfell towers was a 1970 build and would have to be equipped with modern fire safety precautions. I think this tragedy has been caused by resident negligence.

             20 likes

        • Dystopian says:

          “. She says he already had his bags packed and he took off ”

          Sounds a bit dodgy to me. More like he was up to something dodgy and had to get away.
          I read that someone tried to interview him today but he was too busy.

             8 likes

    • Rob in Cheshire says:

      I wondered if the Emir would wear his black tie for this visit. A difficult one for him, as it is not the place where the “Christian” necktie would be appropriate, unlike Borough Market where dhimmis were the victims.

      Sure enough, he wore a dark suit but no tie. The twat still got heckled, I was pleased to see.

         22 likes

    • EnglandExpects says:

      I think that the ‘rush for cladding’ as a result of Blair’s decent homes legislation will be significant after all the emoting and Corbynista hijacking of this tragedy have abated.

         14 likes

  8. Charlie Martel says:

    Pix emerging from Grenfell make it look like a multicultural 3rd world hellhole.
    No doubt with 3rd world health and safety procedures, overcrowding, undocumented residents etc.

       68 likes

    • Dystopian says:

      Yes and according to the BBC;
      “So far six victims of the fire have been provisionally identified, with police admitting some may never be identified. ”

      Well I wonder if now, the suggestion of using dental records to identify immigrants will suddenly be acceptable.

         36 likes

      • Ian Rushlow says:

        “A leading forensic dentist, who did not wish to be named, stated that whilst dental records are usually 99.9% reliable in identifying victims, in extreme circumstances such as these information is destroyed and no useful purpose can be achieved by examining dental records.”
        C’mon… you know they’ve got a press release like this just waiting to go…

           17 likes

        • gaxvil says:

          To have dental records – you need to visit a Dentist.

             19 likes

          • Ian Rushlow says:

            “However, a BBC study has found that such vulnerable communities have limited access to dental care. They may be unable to afford it; they might find it difficult to register with a NHS dentist due to cutbacks; their migration status may be undocumented and they fear being reported to the authorities; they may have limited language skills and be unable to communicate adequately to a dentist, particular one from a different cultural background who is insensitive to their needs…”
            (Beeb editor… if you wish to use the above paragraph it will be a one-off fee of £20 please).

               29 likes

  9. Rick Bradford says:

    We can always rely on “the overwhelming majority” of Muslims to stand up against extremism, right?

    Muslim groups in Germany at odds over planned anti-terrorism march

    The Nicht Mit Uns – or Not With Us – march has been planned as opposition to violence in the name of Islam, but some groups say it stigmatises Muslims

    With friends like those ……

       50 likes

  10. Jo says:

    All I’ve heard on SKY and the BBC this morning is:
    …….community…….community…….community…….community…….community…….community…….blah blah blah

    Really?

    I had a quick look at the crime stats for Grenfell Tower, W11 1TG, for March 2017:

    “The following table displays Street Level crime within a 1 mile radius of the W11 1TG postcode, crimes are grouped by Crime Category.

    The three Categories with the highest amount of crime are highlighted in Red. Categories with no recorded Crimes are highlighted in Green.

    Anti-social behaviour 322
    Bicycle theft 46
    Burglary 76
    Criminal damage and arson 82
    Drugs 74
    Other theft 172
    Possession of weapons 13
    Public order 95
    Robbery 37
    Shoplifting 115
    Theft from the person 80
    Vehicle crime 115
    Violence and sexual offences 322
    Other crime 25”

    Doesn’t look that community minded to me, but then is anyone really surprised? My sister lives in an area of SE London (and not upmarket Blackheath) that is overwhelmingly white. I asked her about this. She said that, apart from thefts from cars and perhaps one or two other categories like shoplifting, she doubts if the area has clocked up that many crimes in the 30 or so years she has lived there. She’s never been a victim to a crime.

    Meanwhile, as May is getting on with her job (and no, I’m not her biggest fan), Corbyn is talking about confiscating the property of wealthy people to house these community minded people. Presumably the property of pop stars will be exempt.

    This is bad news, folks. We have another Hillsborough, only this time with greater racial and party political overtones.

       89 likes

    • EnglandExpects says:

      You have to remember that this community is more akin to Karachi or Mogadishu than the community your sister lives in. All self- inflicted on its own people by successive British Governments yet the politicians who did it ensure that they don’t live in such ‘communities’.

         46 likes

      • Jo says:

        “All self- inflicted on its own people by successive British Governments”

        Elected time and time again by people with ridiculous voting habits. Look no further than Rotherham in recent years.

        Socialist idiots in my home town and thereabouts in W Yorkshire must share a large proportion of the blame – the writing was on the wall from the 1950s onwards long before it became clever to talk about Londonistan.

           60 likes

        • embolden says:

          When I was a kid, I had an uncle who was trying to run a factory in West Yorkshire in the 70s who used to tell my Dad stories about having to let the muslim staff have extra breaks for prayers, and foot washing, and the nightmares of managing them during Ramadan….the 70s.

          His refrain was “you can`t do anything because they’ll use the discrimination laws”.

             51 likes

          • Jo says:

            Yes, that sounds typical.

            Satanic Verses is often cited as the time when we started to capitulate. The highest profile, certainly, but not the first. In the 1960s, Sikh conductors and bus drivers in the Midlands won the right to wear turbans at work.

            Now I’m not anti Sikh, they deserve respect in many ways, but they are rigid, and we should have known that this relatively harmless dispute would set a precedent. It did. I clearly remember local people in Bradford who were following this, and who understood its significance, feeling instinctively that it was a bad idea – the thin edge of the wedge etc. They were just racists of course. However, some Sikhs agreed:

            “Mr Jolly, 66, said the ban on turbans and beards was a direct attack on his religion.

            Fourteen others had vowed to follow suit and set fire to themselves if their request was not granted.

            However, Mr Jolly’s actions did not receive whole-hearted support from all of Britain’s estimated 130,000 Sikhs.

            Dr A K S Aujila of the Supreme Council of Sikhs in the UK said: “We are going to wage relentless war on the idea that individuals can take this sort of action involving the whole community and very likely lead to a worsening of community harmony in Britain”. “

            Anyone who went to school before the rot set in should remember the dangers teachers faced in giving way on school rules (“school rules” – doesn’t that sound archaic?). The old sayings are the best – give them an inch, they take a mile.

            We’re well beyond “a mile” in 2017.

               29 likes

            • MarkyMark says:

              Agreed. The Satanic Verses was a pivotal point in time for capitulation, I was 18 and agreed with the Islamic side. Thinking Salman Rushdie was stupid to mock a religion. Oh, how could I think such a thing? Possibly BBC and Politicians telling me 24/7 that is was the right thing to do.

              Did I read the book? NO! Did they get someone on TV who had read the book? NO! Did reporters ask anyone if they had read the book when interviewed? NO! Did they ask the protesters in the streets if they knew anything about a Fatwa and Khomeini or Iran or The Satanic Verses? NO! Am I trying to excuse myself? NO!

              Language changed my mind on this one easily, Christopher Hitchens framed it like this.
              – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
              Would you agree with someone who ordered a contract to kill a man and his publishers with a reward of $3.3 million, for writing a piece of fiction.
              – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
              Once God is taken out the proposition it all sounds absurd and barbaric. You can’t agree with it. This whole thing was controlled with words like ‘upset’ and ‘immoral’ and ‘sensibilities’ and ‘offensive’ and ‘hurtful’. See what happened here? I hope you do.

              This is the man whose legacy you are still dealing with today, no negotiating ….
              “Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humour in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.”
              —Ayatollah Khomeini / Iranian Leader / 20 August 1979
              This is still Khomeini’s legacy and is HAPPENING NOW, it has NOT GONE AWAY …

              – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
              Iranian state media renew fatwa on Satanic Verses author with $600,000 bounty [Feb 2016]
              – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

              REPORT ON THAT BBC!!!! And say how you feel about it, just a misunderstanding?

              Our response to the latest Fatwa (it is our response, we collectively own this problem now)
              was a strong set of words to no one in particular : ‘a serious violation of free speech’.

              As the Western/Enlightened World, we can’t even bring ourselves to defend a book that represents freedom of expression … no need to guess what happens once you defend the intolerant by using your own tolerance … once the intolerant find your weakness attack it.

              // Sorry for long post, but it is a big issue – go buy “The Satanic Verses”!
              // Ask the BBC for an update on Salman Rushdie story!

                 23 likes

    • Jo says:

      Too late to add that the area she is talking about is less than the 2 miles diameter, above, but the difference is still striking IMO.

         19 likes

    • lojolondon says:

      Wow – Jo – you are a better researcher than the whole of the Biased BBC!! Where do they spend that £6Billion?

         27 likes

    • king crimson says:

      Criminal damage and….arson??!!….82 in a month? (Not by any means to gloat – but checked my postcode. “Other theft 1” and that was it.

         12 likes

  11. Dave666 says:

    BBc Breakfast: Celebration of Saint Jo Cox 120,00all over the country apparently. Not here they aren’t. Meanwhile Charlie tries to give Sajid Javid a hard time. Some free advertising for Christine McVie and that’s pretty much it.

       30 likes

  12. Alex says:

    Labour, the media (BBC/Sky/C4 etc) and the Left’s vile exploitation of the tragic Grenfell Tower disaster for political gain – i.e. promoting the anti-austerity agenda etc. – is appalling beyond belief; that smug metro-trendy, lanky leftie, Jon Snow, was even interviewing that unbearable motormouth, Lilly Allen ffs; I wonder how many ‘refugees’ and victims she has taken into her home? F*** all I wager. Imagine Corbyn and his lot ever get into power… this country would be finished for sure.

       69 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      Hopefully Lily accorded him the respect he was expecting from actual people who lived there, but oddly proved lacking.

         17 likes

    • CranbrookPhil says:

      I’m afraid Alex that Labour will get in, the mood of the country is so biased against the Tories now that Corbyn (the people’s hero!) is a cert for PM. The sensible message of balanced budgets & international security is completely ignored by the jam tomorrow lies of Corbyn.

      What scares me more is the rise of the fascist left who have no truck with democracy. The call for thousands to march on July the first to demand another election is nothing more than mob rule.

      I think the Conservatives have had it, they just don’t get it, the BBC is stoking up anti-right politics as we here all know.

      Seventy-five or eighty years ago chilling mass marches were organised in the name of socialism, the hatred then was against the Jews. Now similar things are happening, the hatred now is against property owners, heads of private businesses, those with property portfolios, anyone over fifty, and those folk who just might be a Tory. The hatred is building, it is really scary.

         45 likes

      • Alex says:

        I fear you might be right there, Phil. But what is truly frightening is how easily young people have been brainwashed; as a former teacher and lecturer, I have been saying on this site and others for years that schools and universities have become completely hijacked by the Left. So, the Left have the education system, the media, the legal and judiciary system and a big chunk of the political apparatus. When we are truly finished is if they get a stranglehold on our defence!

           37 likes

      • Simon Love says:

        These tossers need machine gunning… .50 cal Browning. Turn the scum to sushi. Job done…

           8 likes

  13. Dystopian says:

    The MSM are banging on about how Theresa May did not interact with people affected by the fire. No disrespect to anyone but weren’t there recently Muslim terrorists trying to get into the House of Parliament with knives. Would it not be a security risk for the prime minister to be mingling amongst a bunch of unvetted Syrian immigrants?
    Let’s face it they are hardly a threat to Corbyn who is furthering their cause

       69 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      I would have thought that there were easy ways to be secure visiting the rescued residents, ie. dress down, make an unannounced visit, non-Prime Ministerial vehicle (small hire car, say), no motorcycle outriders, even walk in on foot and straight to one of the three local churches to meet people there. Oh, and no press posse and definitely no TV. Let the word of your visit creep out slowly.

      I don’t think Theresa May is clear thinking enough at the moment. In fact, now we know she has a similar problem to Diane Abbott, is it possible that she, too, is struggling with her health? She is not young either and the pressures of the job may have been a shock and more than enough for her managerial skills.

      As PM, you are the Cabinet cricket Captain and as such you are constant fielding several catches in quick succession and juggling some of them. Preferably without dropping the ball.

      May has now dropped several catches in the last few days and weeks.

         23 likes

      • Tom_Kenny says:

        Agreed – surely the PM could simply meet local residents in ones and twos in a church hall, police station or similar without media present.

        No managerial skills. No people skills. What useful skills does she have?

           8 likes

        • CranbrookPhil says:

          Yes. That is why above I wrote that I think the Conservatives are finished, they are now making blunder after blunder. If Corbyn & his fascist coterie were not so scary…no, scary is not strong enough, terrifying,…I would suggest it a good idea for Labour to take over & try to do something useful (which I doubt they ever could). But with Brexit negotiations starting the next couple of years are too important for idiots like the Labour shadow cabinet to handle.

          Unfortunately the Conservatives are now like the Keystone Cops, worse, they are now seen as uncaring, dear old Uncle Corbyn helped along by his BBC supporters will be wonderful, the poor wiil be so marvelously looked after…as unemployment rises, tax receipts fall & the country goes bankrupt….yuk!

             21 likes

  14. wronged says:

    Why do I think there might be some more Summer riots on our streets.
    We have Left wing politicians inciting anger and forgive the pun ‘flaming the fire’ of discontent.
    We have McDonnell telling Labour supporters to take to the streets and overthrow this Tory government.
    We have a BBC /left wing media trying to play the blame game without any inquiry and full (and I mean -full) knowledge of the facts.

    Barricade yourselves in if you live in a city.

       66 likes

    • embolden says:

      Remember, “F**k you, I`m Millwall.”?

      There`s plenty that do.

         22 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      wronged, barricade yourself if you are in the property business, too.

      The London property market, apparently (I’ve picked up on various comments but can’t cite any specific sources from memory), has eased off considerably and prior to this awful fire, some of the luxury tower developers were said to be finding apartments hard to sell. I’m old enough, unfortunately, to just remember the aftermath of Ronan Point and that had a marked effect on property development in cities around the UK, especially in London.

      We’ve been going back to building vertical in a big way in the UK, not least because of architects’ & Local Authorities’ egos, massive demand with not enough ground space and also for enabling people to work around an inadequate & struggling public & private transport network by living close enough to walk to where they work.

      Not only may high rise apartments now be harder to sell in the private sector, but Local Authorities will have to handle all sorts of pressures on them for planning approvals for work on existing properties, especially towers, let alone building the hundreds of new dwellings that are desperately needed. There will no doubt be all sorts of residents and pressure groups forming for tower block social housing and their safety checks and remedial works. Costs will rocket. Council taxes will have to go up to fund it all.

      Council Tax is an iniquitous and inefficient tax. It could be argued that it was partly to blame for this tragedy. Listen to WatO on Thursday for info on that from the Leader of the Council responsible for Grenfell Tower. One benefit from this may be that the Government will tackle Council Tax and Local Authority funding reform but I will not hold my breath.

      One downside may be the start of a property crash and it may then only need one more ‘event’ to slide the UK economy substantially downward and toward a recession.

      The start of the big collapse? Maybe. Maybe not.

         16 likes

    • Deborah says:

      Even the Telegraph today is advertising the Labour demo on 1 July and blaming Mrs May for not hugging a Muslim. I guess this demo will end in rioting. Corbyn’s, McDonnell and SJWs are pushing for another election or mass public disorder. The BBC is whipping it all up, the boil is getting bigger, it needs lancing.

         45 likes

    • Beltane says:

      Said it before but still worth repeating, the really dangerous one in the junta is McDonnell.

         39 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        Agree, Beltane, McDonnell and Tom Watson.

        Corbyn & McDonnell do not have youth on their side even if they, currently, have the youths on their side.

           14 likes

        • Beltane says:

          Watson is a thug, impure and embarrassingly simple. McDonnell is a quietly spoken failed RC priest with a raft of anger, envy and spite churning around within a frighteningly devious psyche.

             30 likes

          • Up2snuff says:

            Beltane, agreed. Those two make Corbyn look like Albert S, after ‘arold has been unkind to him by suggesting an exploratory visit to the Old Folks Home down the road.

               0 likes

  15. Payne by name says:

    I did have to question how overtly Grenfell was being politicised when the first victim named just happened to be a Syrian refugee but seemingly the whole block was a cultural melting pot.

    Is it wrong though that when hearing this emotive story (has it been proved to be true) of the woman coming down the stairs with 6 children who lost 2 of them en route, I couldn’t help but question what someone was doing with six children in a 2 or at most 3 bed apartment in a block of flats? Do people not bother considering the available space that they have when banging out more children?

       39 likes

  16. gaxvil says:

    It does make one wonder, this voting thing.
    Brexit = majority, Tory = majority and we seem to be nowhere.

       31 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      We have Leaders who have taken the word “Lead” out of it. We have now been left with a bunch of “ers” – prefix what you will.

      In my opinion we have had a system where the political establishment have not had to try to do anything, but wait for answers from the God above. Whose laws are forever (until they change tomorrow) and encompass 27 other lesser Gods who have different passions and maturity. Once you have followed the God long enough, you personally will be elevated to sit next to the Upper God(s) in a chamber which floats between two locations for no reason other than to make life interesting and possibly to lose unwanted documentation of how this magical world works. Once in this chamber you can write magical documents that can bring your riches and crush people you don’t like.

         20 likes

  17. Dystopian says:

    “Do people not bother considering the available space that they have when banging out more children?”

    Possibly, but then they consider the extra child benefits and child tax credits.

       42 likes

    • Cranmer says:

      Perhaps people don’t quite realise how generous our benefits system is. Child benefit is £20.70 per week for the eldest child, and £13.70 per week for others. So a family of 6 (not uncommon in developing countries) would receive £89.20 per week, or £4,638.40 per year. That is roughly equivalent to a cleaner’s salary in eastern Europe or the salary of a junior doctor in India. People from developing countries are usually much more careful with money than Brits, and when you factor in all the other benefits they will be getting (housing, medical, free education etc) you can see why they want to come here and have lots of children.

         24 likes

      • Wild says:

        “you can see why they want to come here and have lots of children”

        If the policy was to replace the native population with low IQ welfare dependent Africans and Western hating Muslims the policy has been a success. I just can’t remember voting for it. Did I miss that election?

        I remember elections where politicians offered hatred of success, high taxation, and there is no such thing as too big a State, which we all knew would bankrupt the Country eventually, and I also remember elections where they said it would be better if we did not govern ourselves and were governed by Spain and France and Germany and Luxembourg, but I don’t remember the election where they said that we are going to replace the native population with Africans and Muslims, because it is only fair given that we are a successful country and their countries are an economic and cultural disaster, and so our population has to be replaced to make things more equal.

        I recall people on the BBC saying that Cuba and Venezuela is wonderful, and those people who spied on behalf of the USSR were idealists, and that Regan was a moron, and that Thatcher was evil, and that Mao and the Cultural Revolution was wonderful, but I don’t recall anybody saying that the aim was to replace the population of the UK.

        I do recall people who said that we should not be part of the EU if we want to be self-governing, and that we should restrict immigration if we are not to build up our funeral pyre, so to speak, I say recall, I have heard about it, but all I can remember is that they were called racists, and denounced by pretty much every politician from every political Party.

        So when did I vote for social housing provided to house low income native Londoners being entirely filled with emigrants from Asia and Africa? I mean not one or two, but the whole blocks, block after block, presumably all across London, and other cities across the UK. Millions and millions of people. I say presumably, but I have no idea how many low IQ Africans and Western hating Muslims we have allowed to settle in this Country in the last 20, 40. 60 years, and I suspect the BBC never will tell me.

        I remember watching a Who Do You Think You Are? programme recently, where a celebrity returned to the village of her ancestors, and was told she has no family left there because they were all slaughtered by local Muslims, but no conclusions were drawn. I recall she was very proud that a relative was involved in the Indian Independence movement, but I do not recall any puzzlement over why after independence was granted to India her family moved to the UK. Was it possibly to do with those massacres? The BBC probably thought it was racist to mention it.

           39 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      Statistics are useless unless you cross reference the data with “colonised by the west”, “saved by a pop concert”, “skin colour”, “male privilege”, “white privilege”,”feminist” and then add ‘diversity” and “transgender” – never,ever cross reference with religion.
      Hope I’ve not forgotten anyone – possibly the BBC should show some context of how we compare to the world – how we’ve improved over time. Wouldn’t that reassure some people a bit? I know it won’t bring back the dead, but a bit of reassurance for the living.

      The fire is unusual – not the new norm, I hope.

      Thanks for the link, I’ve been looking for that site for a while.

      FIRES: Death Rate Per 100,000
      Position 1st: NIGERIA rated 21.13 (bad)
      Position 156: UNITED KINGDOM rated 0.37
      Position 167 CUBA rated 0.21 (surprised by this one!)
      Position 172: LUXEMBOURG* rated 0.10 (good)

      * best country in the world due to turning itself into a tax haven from 2002 to 2010 under Juncker, then Juncker becoming European President and increasing the laws to stop other people doing that same thing. He is a genius!
      http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com

         16 likes

  18. Dover Sentry says:

    Brexit:

    “”BREXIT BOOST: Britain would be ‘£156 billion a year better off WITHOUT a deal with EU'””

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/817259/Brexit-boost-Britain-better-off-without-no-deal-EU-Theresa-May

    BBC please note.

       30 likes

  19. StewGreen says:

    R4 Now Tracy Brabin MP, Jo Coxes replacement is being given a free ride
    R5 Now – brother of Syrian refugee who died in Grenfell fire
    “We are pushing for the family to be allowed visa to come here and see Mohammed’s body before they bury him”
    Emma Barnett being ever so sympathetic … and useless as usual, unaware tht you have to use simple English when you speak to non fluent foreigners.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tbf69

       12 likes

  20. StewGreen says:

    That BrexitWifeSwap on C4 last night
    I hope David or Alan do a post on it
    It really opened my mind .. previously I tought some remainers could be logical
    but by watching Remainers tweets during the prog I saw that they came across as everything they accused Brexiteers of
    They showed intolerance + kneejerk hate, not humility
    … of 270, only 1 remainer commented that buring Frages photo was over the top.
    See first of my comments yesterday here

       22 likes

  21. BRISSLES says:

    Terrific reply Dave.
    All these badges and bracelets, is just a self promoting “aren’t I good and righteous” idealogy, that help no-one; and why show it off on Twatter ? if you have those beliefs keep quiet about it, do your charitable actions and donations (like a lot of us already do), without the need to promote yourself. For many years I’ve given monthly donations to the Retired Greyhound Trust, but I don’t wear a sodding wristband to publicise the fact. Emma Barnet is wearing her’s for ONE day and needs to tell the world. Get a life woman !

       44 likes

  22. StewGreen says:

    Also last thread : Andy S pointed to Labour product placement within the BBC News
    \\ Caught another fake interview by the BBC. Beeboid interviewing a bloke they describe as a “local resident” by the name of Piers Thompson //
    turns out to be Labour Party activist pictured elsewhere standing next to Corbyn.

       31 likes

  23. Dave S says:

    Clear now that the media/cultural elites are intent on bringing down this government here and the President in the US.
    Nearly an open declaration of war by them particularly in the US with that dreadful production of Julius Caesar and the shooting of the congressman. But in the US the President is capable of really fighting back .
    Here it is a bit more subtle apart from Macdonald calling for insurrection in the streets on July 1st.
    The BBC is determind to destroy Mrs May and it shows . It looks as if she will be made to take the blame for the fire and in this way be forced out which will end brexit -that was always the plan anyway.
    These idiots seem to relish instability but as always be careful what you wish for .
    The forces driving disintegration and balkanisation in this country are gathering weight and because of an insanity gripping those who should know better this look now as if this is inevitable.

       43 likes

  24. StewGreen says:

    Ah SJW Missionary Nicky Campbell just replied to me

       16 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      To reveal how the debate is ran and show it is orchestrated (I didn’t watch the debate) and so people can highlight it and you can learn and change the format so it’s more about debate, than stifling the debate.
      My wife said “If you comment (nice way of putting it) on the BBC all the time, why watch it?”
      To which I replied “I have to see how bad it is.”
      But I do channel hop, and like France24 because of their nice soothing French voices.

      “… most of you are political junkies. Most of the country isn’t.” – Starkey includes David Dimbleby!
      @3:20 “…there are only two (out of 6) here you came up from nowt, Justine and me, and we’re both on the right.”
      @3:31 “…if you’re also pretending to be a democracy. Then this sort of cozy,inbreed, liberal, pat on the back it’s all right. The Ken Clarke remark – the contempt for the mere orders you know.”
      “The best of David Starkey part 1”

         28 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      Bit of a logic fail by Nicky there.

      Was he on Che’s firing squads too?

         11 likes

    • StewGreen says:

      I replied but, looks like he then ran away

         8 likes

  25. Manxman says:

    Change of direction here fellas, this is more 28gate.

    This latest paper is getting a bit of publicity, it is touted as new research, theres nothing ”new” about it.
    This has been known for 2 centuries atleast, all meterological weather models operate on the same Newtonian principals.
    It is the basic atmospheric model we were taught in science class 45 yrs ago, these guys have just sliced through all the Murcury Mars Moon etc RGHE sophistry, and applied the same Newtonian physic’s to all the other planets, and because their work used ”real world” physics, surprise surprise everything conforms to the maths, or the maths conform to each planets temperature swings, eitherway a perfect fit, where ever, and whenever applied.

    Its the sun gravity albido and pressure of mass silly.

    https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/New-Insights-on-the-Physical-Nature-of-the-Atmospheric-Greenhouse-Effect-Deduced-from-an-Empirical-Planetary-Temperature-Model.pdf

       7 likes

  26. Up2snuff says:

    91 year old Royal puts 60 year old politician to shame.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473

       9 likes

  27. Jo says:

    This is the first time I’ve heard Michael Portillo stick his neck out and say anything sensible for a long time. He actually sounds sincere:

    Labour moderate lashed by Michael Portillo for cow-towing to Corbyn ‘DANGEROUS hard-left’

    We must be in trouble.

       32 likes

  28. Manxman says:

    Its just remorseless up2, same paragraphs over and over, Only the first paragraph, the excuse for the headline is different, then its all anti weak weak weak, fingertip hold on power treazza.

       9 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Manx, it has been noticeable that in a week when senior Conservative Ministers should have been stepping up to apologise for their woeful absence during the GE campaign (esp. when we know c/o BBC that the Ministers responsible had little notice of contents of their manifesto), once again, Hammond, Bojo, and now Rudd, are nowhere to be seen.

      OK, that awful fire has been an event that dominates and too much Conservative grovelling would not look good alongside it. They could and should have got it done and out of the way on Monday, anyway.

      As for the Grenfell fire, Rudd has been where? Does it not fall within her brief as Home Secretary? One comment or statement on Wednesday morning, I think that’s all I heard via Radio 4.

      I hated Labour’s news management of 1997-2010. It went far too far.

      But either there has been a collective failure of responsibility among senior Cabinet members to work together over recovering the Parliamentary and DUP situation as well as the Grenfell fire and its aftermath, or they all – despite their statements to the contrary on Monday – have decided to abandon Theresa May.

      Theresa May is out front in Government, maybe all on her own.

         11 likes

  29. Manxman says:

    Jo, i never really took much notice of choo choo, i like his laid back just finished a reefer persona tho, maybe thats the way to negotiate with lefties, over a few reefers.

       8 likes

  30. JimS says:

    Just given up on Jeremy Vine. It has gone way beyond bias, it is now blatant ‘populist’ hate campaigning plus ‘Is It Time To Realise That We Are Never Going To Leave The EU?’

    Nearly twelve months now and they are still in denial and, what is worse, using our money to campaign against us, the us that is now 70% according to BBC favourites YouGov.

       47 likes

  31. Al Shubtill says:

    Just listening to The Jezza Swine Show and Vine going completely off the dial over May’s visit to the high rise Third World midden.
    I can’t recall any equivalent to this rage being exhibited by presenters like JV after any of the recent Islamic terrorist atrocities.
    It indicates whose deaths al Beebus think are worthy of getting angry about – and it isn’t us, it’s them.

    The scum are now attempting to use this visit as a means to leverage May out of office. It is just quite unbelievable that they are able to do this with impunity and without being held accountable.

       50 likes

    • gaxvil says:

      Maybe change OFCOM to FO-COM?

         17 likes

    • gaxvil says:

      I do think the name OFCOM should be changed to FO-COM.
      PS: Maybe they haven’t got their ass in gear or maybe they’ve not read the bbc charter or, more likely, they’re just a bunch of kundts.

         12 likes

    • Emmanuel Goldstein says:

      I may be cynical but I doubt if any of the politicians and pop stars really give a fig about all these deaths be it terrorist or disaster related.

      What turns my stomach is when politicians on shows like pm questions and qt reel of the usual “our thoughts and prayers……” before getting on with the business.

      I would hate it for any politician to try to virtue signal using me or those I know if anything like that were to happen, standing up on their hind legs and showing everyone how caring they are.

      I remember when private eye was funny, a long time ago, and they had a ‘Thatchcard’ which was a donor card type of thing and if you had one it meant you wouldn’t be bothered by politicians (Maggie) coming for a photo opportunity with you if you had been involved in some big incident.

      The sad thing is, by not going through this charade the lefties immediately accuse you of insensitivity so it’s routine now. See what’s happening to May because she didn’t virtue signal with those victims of the fire.

         24 likes

      • gaxvil says:

        Notice the utter paranoia when they speak. First thing they say, ‘Our thoughts……’ because if ever they don’t there’s a shit storm but it don’t mean they have to do anything about anything.

           21 likes

      • MarkyMark says:

        May should lead this NOW …
        “I chose not to visit the London Grenfell victims at the moment because they are being tendered to by our excellent NHS staff and I feel that to upset them by reminding them of the incident and bringing them unwanted media attention and scrutiny prior to some initial investigation would be wrong in my opinion. I have sent a representative to see if we can help with their immediate needs.”

        “A lot of effort is required when visiting hospitals and puts a strain on the doctors and nurses and facilities during these visits. Possibly taking time from other people whilst this all goes on.”

        “Rest assured I will nip in once the dust has settled and the doctors inform me that it’s a better time to visit with minimal disturbance to our already strained NHS services because of recent events from terror – never mind the day to day running of the hospital.”

        “We have now pulled the records of all flats who have had the same tiles fitted and issued 100 health and safety officers to check all flat sprinklers in the London region – spreading nationwide by the end of the week. We will also find those responsible and in one months time I will stand in front for 10 Downing street to explain the findings checking all the processes involved from European Dictates and our own National policies.”

        “Any meaningful questions that don’t require speculation or shouting please?”

        Damed if you do! Oh, look at them getting press attention. Damed if you don’t! Why, they are horrible and doing nothing.

           17 likes

      • imaynotalwaysloveyou says:

        To be honest I don’t give a fig about all these deaths either..maybe I’m a heartless bastard. Yes it’s tragic, and an entire tower block shouldn’t have gone up like it was made of nylon, and people should be prosecuted and sent to the slammer if they’re found out. I rather suspect anyone from the local authority will get off scot-free however.

        At work today they were panhandling for money for the victims, give £1 a day next week and we can come in in dress-down garb, isn’t it wonderful? But I’m going to say no when they come rattling the tin, just like I did for the recent London & Manchester incidents. If I wanted to be charitable there are plenty of homeless people begging nearby that (if I could be bothered to find out if they were truly homeless) I could buy a pasty & cup of tea for. Most big charities are just awful scams preying on the gullible.

        Anyway I really dislike all this misplaced altruism, it’ll be the ruin of us all. I never knew anyone in that tower block, which by the look of most of the residents might have been situated in any country with a much warmer climate. They weren’t no kin to me.

        Just STFU with your expressions of sympathy, your vigils, your one minute silences! Bad things are happening everywhere in the world, most of it can’t be fixed and isn’t our business to fix.

        And another thing..all this nonsense is obviously very politically slanted too. I’ve never seen anyone ask for money for the pedophile grooming gang victims, or sign a petition to reduce the Overseas aid budget, or anything to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East..

        OK that’s it, I’m off to drink some beer while I look at other news, and cheer when I find some awful apocalyptic disaster somewhere on the globe. There’s bound to be one.

           17 likes

        • imaynotalwaysloveyou says:

          I will add as an addendum to my earlier post this little scene. To me it nicely sums up how naive solipsistic self-absorption, and wishing the world wasn’t like it actually is (so characteristic of the left) often leads to disaster.

          ‘People are dead Peggy’

          From Fargo season 2, one of the best TV dramas I’ve seen in ages. Worth watching and some great acting if you haven’t already seen it (and season 1).

             4 likes

  32. gaxvil says:

    Talking to a chap, retired fire inspector. Telling me about high rises and the shoddy standard of refurb’s he saw.
    One always has to wonder at the priorities of LGAs – they’ll spend bucket loads on LGBT drop in centres and pieces of scrap called ‘art’ while saying they’re broke.

       35 likes

  33. Thoughtful says:

    I see another tanned gentleman with a long black beard has been arrested for allegedly showing people how nice his large shiny knife was outside the palace of Westminster.

    “The incident is not thought to be terror related.” yeah course it’s not !

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/armed-police-hold-man-gunpoint-13194923

       36 likes

  34. Thoughtful says:

    I see another tanned gentleman with a long black beard has been arrested for allegedly showing people how nice his large shiny knife was outside the palace of Westminster.

    “The incident is not thought to be terror related.” yeah course it’s not !

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/armed-police-hold-man-gunpoint-13194923

       19 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      Agree. It has nothing to do with terror but has everything to do with a book that causes insanity and mental issues. Due to myself being ‘cowed’ I cannot tell you anymore … mo’s the word … shhhh.

      But times are changing, we have terrorists in the UK casually walking around with pretend suicide vests and knives. Using rented vehicles to mow down innocent civilians on a bridge – even with an army deployed (who did not make it to the scene). And our best line of defense is a football supporter named Roy Larner shouting – “F**K You! I’m Millwall” whilst taking on three terrorists – whilst the other men run the otherway. What I would do in this circumstance I’m not sure – but Roy has definitely shown some balls of steel and possibly the more manly approach to the problem.

      BBC webpage regarding Roy: “Islam” text x 0
      Independent webpage regarding Roy: “Islam” text x 4
      Mirror webpage regarding Roy: “Islam” text x 0
      The Sun webpage regarding Roy: “Islam” text x 0

         21 likes

  35. EnglandExpects says:

    I wonder which bit of British foreign policy this particular gentleman objected to?

       17 likes

  36. MarkyMark says:

    Did anyone else catch it? I’m sure the heading for http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473 has changed from a horrible attack on the Queen to a more neutral one?
    Did anyone catch it? Am I going mad? Is there a way to see changes to BBC pages?

    Was [before 2017-06-16 13:47] “Queen shown up by 72 year old Grenfell victim” (not accurate, my guess)
    Now [after 2017-06-16 13:47] “London fire: Queen and Prince William visit Grenfell Tower centre”

    I now see why the BBC web links are numbered rather than using the the contents of the heading to describe the article. So they can change the contents quickly.

    If this did not happen then I’m off the web for a week.

       15 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      * IGNORE PREVIOUS POST ABOVE WITH “Did anyone else catch it?”*
      Sorry, I mixed up my news feeds – will only state this if I get a screen capture in the future. Lesson learnt.
      * IGNORE PREVIOUS POST ABOVE *
      * IGNORE PREVIOUS POST ABOVE *

         4 likes

      • Manxman says:

        It said 91yr old woman shows up 60yr old woman or similar, attacking May for not virtue signalling, i read it all, but it just becomes a blur……..i said read, but thats overstating, reasonable scan is all i ever really do with their so-called Newz.

           16 likes

  37. The Sage says:

    In reply to an earlier comment, Aberfan happened under a Labour government but was Harold Wilson blamed for the tragedy? Of course not. Let’s wait for the inquiry, before we start to apportion blame and with most things of this nature it’s often a combination of factors or decisions.

       34 likes

    • Emmanuel Goldstein says:

      I would guess this is a labour ward run by a labour council and their labour MP.
      Am I correct?
      I would also guess the decisions regarding these tower blocks in this area were all taken by labour council people.
      Is this correct?

         14 likes

  38. MarkyMark says:

    In other news … some other people are found to be above the rule of law. “Erdoğan decries ‘unacceptable’ US arrest warrants for staff in Washington brawl” [15 June 2017]

    Is this the same Erdoğan who arrested 70,756 for not agreeing with him?
    “From high-ranking military officials to university professors, those imprisoned since the attempted coup now total 70,756 – although some(no value given, makes him sound nice) have been released” [8 October 2016]

    Turkey demands Germany prosecute comedian for Erdogan insult as follows – “the man who beats girls”, and said that he loved to “fuck goats and suppress minorities, kick Kurds, hit Christians, and watch child pornography.”

    We should listen to this guy, he says what he believes and does not hide it but we think he doesn’t mean it and has miss-spoken. Who are the idiots?

    “Democracy is like a streetcar. You ride it until you arrive at your destination and then you step off.” In 2007, Erdogan said of the term “moderate Islam,” “These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” And last May, referring to democracy, freedom, and the rule of law, he proclaimed in a television address, “For us, these phrases have absolutely no value any longer.”

       19 likes

  39. Teddy Bear says:

    As Jeremy Bowen tells us of the charismatic, legendary, young revolutionary freedom fighter that was Arafat…
    2zyl9xl.jpg

       13 likes

  40. MarkyMark says:

    This is still waiting in the wings “… mainly in Westminster where I work…there are a lot more barriers and bollards (do terrorists respect bollards – are they plastic or steel?) in place to protect us (she means herself and colleagues?) from terrorists.” @6:20

    Lord Harris enquiry on terror attacks said we should put up barriers (recommendation 31/Oct16) on the Bridges in London to protect pedestrians – Diane had not read the report or not remembered it – who if elected would be in charge of the UK’s defense and homeland security.

    GE#17 // Labour(Hackney) // Diane Abbott // Votes 42,265 // share 75.1% // change+12.2 // The People Love Her!

    In a USA dimension near you …
    “… this liberal (Maxine Waters) will be all about socialising, urm, um, errm, (edited video where she looks down at book Communist Manifesto for Dummies) , urm, um, errm, would be about basically taking over and the Government running all your companies.” – MAXINE WATERS OUTS THE DEMS SOCIALIST AGENDA

    In French dimension barriers are not needed … the need for walls around Paris Eiffel Tower.
    “It’s not a wall, it’s an aesthetic perimeter.” – Deputy mayor Jean-François Martins on Protecting the Eiffel Tower (Feb 2017)

       10 likes

  41. gaxvil says:

    Another 38 Degrees petition – a new and ‘secret’ round of NHS cuts we must fight? Do they mention that floods of immigrants/’refugees’ up the costs courtesy of the EU and then where might the money come from for the NHS.?
    Do they want higher taxes insurance schemes – No!
    Should those who can afford it chip in No!
    Should immigration be vastly reduced? No!
    Just like our esteemed media – all the sensationalism but zero when it comes to solutions.

       21 likes

    • ToobiWan says:

      The fact this outfit is run by a former haed of activism at “Friends of the Earth”, one David Babbs should tell you all you need to know about this outfits impartiality and agenda.

         8 likes

  42. MartinW says:

    As for Jeremy Bowen’s series on the Middle East (BBC R4), I’ve so far listened to not one single episode, for the simple reason that whatever he says will be processed through the mind of Jeremy Bowen and come out distorted. And I do not anticipate listening to any.

       13 likes

  43. Moodswing6 says:

    4pm WS and their on it again. GRENFELL TOWERS. Yes it’s horrific but the lousy CBB are only inflaming the tragedy. Naturally they had a good dig at Teresa and played a clip from a resident going crazy at Andrea Leadsom because sprinklers were not installed during the refurb.
    Implicating Teresa and Andrea who are not directly responsible is reprehensible. No wonder Teresa didn’t approach residents when she visited yesterday. Why would you when they are basically screaming at her as if she personally lit the fire. I’m not happy at all with the Prime Minister regarding the lack of decisive action on the recent terror atrocities, but I’m also becoming rather tired of the residents screaming blame at the government which is exactly what the CBB want. There is obviously a reason for not installing sprinklers. Financial? Logistic? Ok, so they got their sprinklers. No evidence that they would have been effective and you can bet on it had they malfunctioned and caused water damage to the flats the residents would have gone ballistic. You can not please these people. You can give them every piece of help that’s going and they would still complain. When I got offered my 16th floor flat after intensive cancer treatment I was extatic and contacted the housing officer to thank her. She was taken aback in shock because no one ever said thank you, all they did was complain.

       25 likes

    • Jo says:

      Helped a friend do some flat hunting last year. Good, but not extravagant, 1/2 bedrooms. Not one had a sprinkler system.

      I suspect people setting them off accidentally or, in some instances, through vandalism, rules them out.

      Can’t speak for high end flats generally but Berkeley Homes flats at Pavilion Square, Royal Arsenal Riverside, do claim to have sprinkler systems in open plan flats. The implication is that non open plan flats don’t. Around £400k+, I suspect.

      Hysteria is taking over.

         15 likes

    • Alicia Sinclair says:

      Until I get some facts, I`ll make the assumption that this is Chinese Cockle Pickers kind of fuss.
      The progressives willing gamble on cheap nursery nannies and smooth hummous.
      Labour should have been disembowelled over that scandal.
      But Labour got clean off with THAT outrage, because it was the Left in power.
      And it didn`t happen by White City, but up past Liverpool, and nuclear wasn`t on the news cycle for them to shaft the Tories.
      NO-if I assume this was an illegal Muslim migrant knocking over her gas bottle barbecue, tipping the chip pan down the side of the Green Party enforced cladding after one of Blairs Private/Public Partnership scams involving Dubai money and Kensingtons Progressive Councillors, then I`ll work back from that.
      Until then it`s a case of too many migrants too high up in flats that the BBC rely on for cleaning and canteen facilities-a LimeGreen Whitewashing of an Islamic Green scandal with the Greens and no border checks now coming into the firing line.
      When we get to that stage-think we`ll find that the BBC will revisit Hammonds bottling out of the Mansion House speech last night to distract us all again.
      The BBC and Labour are “in this together”.
      And they are playing with-well, I nearly said “fire”, but you know what I mean….

         20 likes

    • Umbongo says:

      Having looked at the BBC24 coverage this afternoon it’s obvious that the “angry protestors” are largely the usual SJW suspects who would normally be harrassing non-lefty academics or damaging Conservative Party HQ rather than Kensington & Chelsea Town Hall. Of course, the BBC’s more or less continuous coverage of the demonstration only serves to exacerbate tensions. Rita Chakrabati added to the fun by implying that, after all, it’s all Mrs May’s fault (proved by Mrs May not initially talking to the survivors).

      The BBC’s fronting for Labour by – among other things – the continuous relaying of contentious and politically-driven allegations about the fire and the causes of its ferocity is no more than contributors to this blog expect of our tax-funded “impartial” broadcaster. As a general point it seems to me that by its reporting of this and every fatuous Labour claim, the BBC is (a la the MSM in the US vis-a-vis Trump) complicit in efforts to delegitimise the Conservatives as the party of government. Mrs May is rubbish and the delay in coming to an agreement (if that’s now even possible) with the DUP is ridiculous. However, the Conservatives actually won more votes and considerably more seats than Labour. You won’t often hear that fact stated baldly on the BBC (except in the context of the wilful unfairness on the part of the Conservatives that is keeping Corbyn from his rightful place at 10 Downing Street)

         16 likes

      • ID says:

        On Sky News, the usual suspects with Big Beards were telling us “there were billions spent on bombing Syria, all that money could have been spent on protecting the poor here”.
        The poor in this case all look like thirdworlders. This somewhat destroys the “narrative” that all these people are net contributors to the public purse.

           17 likes

  44. Franglais says:

    Civil War anyone?

    or would you prefer to remember the less PC times?

    No offense meant!

       18 likes

    • MarkyMark says:

      Franglais – you have incurred a 150% Hate Incident – Offensive was taken (too much skin) and you made me smile – being funny is soon to outlawed.

      “Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humour in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.”
      —Ayatollah Khomeini

         15 likes

  45. tipple says:

    I notice BBC have a proper hi-def camera crew at Kennsington Town Hall. Sky have some crappy hand held camera. Were the BBC invited to film the revolution? I expect rioting will be bursting out in parts of London by the end of the night.

       19 likes

    • Alicia Sinclair says:

      Both of you seem to be onto something tipple and MS6.
      Happened to hear a bit of Andrea speaking live on Sky, Lucid, thoughtful and quietly talking to a small group. Turned over immediately to BBC1, where there was a prerecorded piece with an angry woman Muslim. My thought was that Andrea would not be getting much longer to be calm and collected. As soon as the BBC knew what was happening, sensed that one of their Momentum Opportunists would be making their bid for the News at One.
      The BBC are this obvious these days, endlessly shovelling shark bait over the sides of that flagship they`ve shanghai`d for the left.
      But at least we know this now.
      And those lefty sharks of Corbyn will be found out soon, if we do our jobs.

         23 likes

  46. Grumbler says:

    Looks like the riots could be on the way! Journalists are winding people up deliberately.

       21 likes

    • Umbongo says:

      I don’t think they need winding up, but the continuous coverage isn’t helping. BTW where were the police at Kensington & Chelsea Town Hall? You would have thought that a demo, a golden opportunity for SJWs to get involved, would be bound to turn violent. Overwhelming police numbers should be able to stop any violence in the bud. The few security people (possibly police?) seemed to be simply trying to stop the SJW/”Justice for Grenfell” crowd protestors getting to the first floor of the Town Hall rather than ejecting them altogether. More likely we’re going to have a repetition of August 2011: the police will effectively disappear for a day so that a bit of “good-humoured” looting can take place.

         13 likes

      • Alicia Sinclair says:

        I`d not be surprised if the police are fully behind these licensed rebellions against the Tories.
        As long as it`s media friendly, hurts no police and gives the quiet and law abiding a good warning. Occupy and Duggan types of license,let the young scare a few Tories and pensioners.
        Hitler used the Brownshirts in the same way, as the SS were quietly watching from upstairs. Hence my worries.

           11 likes

  47. Alicia Sinclair says:

    Given the story of Philip Hammond cancelling his pig out at the Mansion House, in order to show respect over the senseless Grenfell Tower tragedy?
    Any chance of Jo Cox`s badge buffers now cancelling THEIR proposed “celebration” of Jo Cox` aimless nonentity of a a life?
    All those open air barbecues are surely a provocation and an insult to the victims at Grenfell? Or is all this entirely in the gift of the Left and all those luvvies with records to get out, posters to make and clips of Freeview to be seen in?
    Give it all a rest for the weekend luvvies.
    The alternative ought to be trouble for them.
    No Barbies forJo#

       17 likes

    • Up2snuff says:

      Alicia, don’t think I agree with this “Jo Cox` aimless nonentity of a a life?”. She stood, got elected, got killed. She achieved something and received something she did not deserve.

      Think you probably had what people are doing with her death, some way into post mortem, in mind and in that you have a good point. Brendan Cox now has an opportunity to win some (extra) respect. Wonder what he will do?

         3 likes

      • Alicia Sinclair says:

        Sorry Up2.
        Nothing against her as a mother and family member. A needless tragedy.
        But Stephen Timms nearly got killed in 2010 by a Muslim woman-and yet I remember none of this synthetic emoting.
        Promise you that I feel for her kids and family.
        But the political use of her killing to stop Brexit,and to pin it on the white right-unlike the usual pyschiatric/lone wolf/NHS cuts -just gets my goat.
        Think politically that she WAS undistinguished-I`d certainly never heard of her, and saying that she was nothing much yet does not mean that I belittle her death. Only one year in Parliament after all.
        But I`ve had my fill of Horst Wessel type sanctifications, read too much on where it all leads.
        I suppose I`m my own backlash at the medias crap sometimes-don`t think I`m not unaware that I get a bit OTT…hence my hubbys willingess to give me time to rattle off.

           9 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          AS, agree with the rest just felt the aimless, non-entity bit was so very wrong.

          Yes, this gets up my nose, too, when Airey Neave, Anthony Berry and others – as well as Stephen Timms – and Lee Rigby are forgotten.

          At least, HM has remembered PC Palmer even if the LibMob media and others have not.

             6 likes

    • Tom_Kenny says:

      “Aimless nonentity of a life”.

      No.

      Whether or not you shared her political views – and I certainly didn’t – she got off her backside, campaigned and put them to the electoral test.

      There is some uncharacteristically intemperate posting going on on this site today. I don’t know why. Are we panicking at Brexit being apparently in jeopardy? Frustrated by May? Whatever it is, it’s undermining the site’s “credibly identify BBC bias” mission any good.

         2 likes

  48. Hexhamgeezer says:

    The Beeb will be reasonably pleased that they’ve at last got some return on their efforts promote/’report’ ‘anger’. They will now have their fingers crossed that Momentum builds for more widespread ‘anger’ from the ‘community’.

       15 likes

    • Franglais says:

      How dare they! Shoot the lot of them…..scourge of my country!!

      Where are the incumbents? What has happened to my capital city?

      Who sanctioned this unfettered immigration……..did we have a vote on this?

      Have we already forgotten the little girls in Manchester and the people with their throats cut whilst out for the night in Borough?

      Shame on the authorities in the UK…..sort it out…..enough IS enough!!!

         22 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      Shame the BBC’s Anger and Protests Editor is no longer at news night, but his iPhone address book clearly coordinating like a good ‘un.

         5 likes

  49. Up2snuff says:

    Sorry, guys and gals, but perhaps I should have made it clear in my 12.07pm post that that was my by-line, not that of the BBC. So please don’t shoot two messengers, especially as one of them is me.

    Theresa May has made a hash of this. She has let a bad situation get away from her. Yes, she has a lot to do at any time, even when not trying to negotiate political deals. The DUP would have understood if they had been put on hold. It’s also not a case of getting in the way, in hospitals or anywhere else. I would have thought that there is an easy, non-news managed way, to make a secure and relatively quick visit. Then there is the spun 1997-2010 alternative (which I hate) or the limited effort of the PM yesterday. Interestingly, Jeremy Corbyn appears to have got away with something close to the former, when one of his MPs has been slammed (perhaps rightly) for jumping in too soon with a statement.

    She made the wrong call. Inadvertently, even the Queen has shown her up.

    On the Major Inquiry front the PM may or may not have made the right call – that will now be restricted by it’s own inevitable time frame. At least Theresa May did not dither over that or refuse at first to call it but she should have considered that it might look like ‘kicking it into the long grass’.

    I suspect some of the action MarkyMark advocates in his post @ 1.41pm is probably what was being done by the PM at No.10 in the early morning as details of the fire became known. Any Local Authority and any local Fire Chief worthy of the title should – off their own bat – be carrying out quick reviews and visual checks of similar residential, business and public buildings in their areas. However, a PM who has had the disaster of 8th June should be getting help from the rest of the Cabinet. Getting her Home Secretary in front of the cameras to convey that re-assurance, not just for the PM’s future but for the sake of the people in similar buildings if not the Government and the Home Secretary’s career.

    The Chancellor could and should have been on-side. Instead of worrying whether he should be seen in a white bow tie or black bow tie or a lounge suit or at the Mansion House dinner or even there at all, he could and should have via the LA leader, been making emergency funds available. Not a squeak from Hammond, as far as I can tell, apart from “the dinner’s off and I’m on my way to Brussels”.

    Bojo was one time Mayor of London. He, of all people from the Senior Cabinet, should have been down near Grenfell Tower in his pyjamas in the early hours of Wednesday with bottles of water, blankets, etc., to show some care. He, of all the senior Conservatives, should have been geared up to show up.

    It is no good moaning about the BBC when, in this case, in the most comprehensive of ways, HMG has shot itself in both feet.

    There’s a famous phrase of, I think, Harold Macmillan who, when asked what was the most difficult thing about his job and what was most likely to disrupt the smooth running of government, said in reply “Events, dear boy, events.”

       9 likes

    • tipple says:

      Well said. She has tripped up yet again. Agreed, Boris should be there too.

      Have you read The Guardian treasonous editorial & Toynbee’s witterings on the subject?

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-grenfell-tower-theresa-may-hurricane-katrina

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/theresa-may-scared-grenfell-survivors-finished-austerity-cameron-osborne

         4 likes

      • Jo says:

        “Boris should be there too.”

        Why?

        Why not the Pope? Dig up Churchill and Thatcher just to be sure.

           9 likes

        • Up2snuff says:

          Jo, he was Mayor of London, he is a Senior Government Minister, one of the Big Four (PM, Exchequer, Home & Foreign), has experience in dealing with this sort of thing, was defective in his GE campaign efforts, ditto as Foreign Sec before election was called, …

          … is that enough reasons for you? There are more.

             1 likes

      • MarkyMark says:

        I think “disrupt the smooth running of government” would suggest there is some order to the running of a Government. We all know plates are spinning and crashing everywhere – all she had to do is set the story and follow best she can. I would not assume anything is being done – and by May getting other people to jump to tasks by publicly stating it on TV the pressure is on them to get it done – she can then follow up and call everyone lazy.

        If you were sleeping in a tower block tonight at the very top how would you feel tucking in your children to go to sleep?
        Irrespective of race, colour or creed.

        Spin some more plates, crack some heads. Alas, we are looking for a leader where there isn’t one. I feel our own swamp was drained along time ago – with all the talent.

           7 likes

        • Jo says:

          “How would you feel” questions are trite in the extreme. Friday night pub bullshit.

          There are many dangers and potential situations that I would not feel happy about my family being involved in. The next terrorist attack, for example, a King’s Cross fire, an Aberfan landslide, or a Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing. Over thirty people have been killed deliberately in recent weeks alone as part of a sustained series of attacks but we are constantly reminded that we must carry on as normal.

          There was a woman outside the Town Hall earlier blaming the police for everything under the sun and demanding to know the true number of victims. A little difficult to assess when parts of the building are still unsafe.

          Hysteria and crass stupidity are still just that, even after a disaster. Too many people are falling into the same trap.

             29 likes

          • ID says:

            Strange you should mention Aberfan. To call it a landslide is a distortion of history.
            About 120 children and 30 adults were killed when a heap of coal mining waste collapsed and engulfed a school. The National Coal Board and Lord Robins were found guilty of extreme negligence. If there is one event that demolishes the claim that nationalised industries are the panacea for all ills it was this disaster. I seem to remember that “caring, sharing” Old Labour under Wilson showed no interest in removing similat tips at other sites and stole some of the cash raised as part of the Aberfan Disaster Fund to remove the slurry tip at Aberfan. It horrified me as a child and only recently a relative of mine was wondering why it seems to have been so completely forgotten.

               12 likes

            • Wild says:

              Does it fit the narrative of bring back a Labour government?

                 8 likes

              • ID says:

                Certainly not on bringing back an old old Labour Corbyn government. I wonder what JC’s policy on collective farms is?

                Have just watched a loud-mouthed women in a NIQAB on the BBC news complaining that Britain was not modern enough for her. Apparently the tension is rising. Not only in West London.

                   8 likes

          • MarkyMark says:

            Thanks for the bringing me down to earth with “How would you feel”.
            See what happens when you disengage your brain and reason, add emotion and believe you are right. I have to be right because it feels right! If you don’t understand then you are bad.
            WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU! WHY CAN’T YOU HEAR ME! I AM RIGHT!

            We are losing law and order. Civility. But why?

            As a country in the UK we try to reveal what has happened rather than hide it. And then we try to auto-correct and show what we have learnt. Change our laws and arrest those responsible. And improve the chances for the living and our future children. Would you rather be with Kim Jong-Un who has 12 potential mass graves in North Korea (numbers not known – bodies just vanished – your imagination fills in figures – how many do you think? Without a number your guess will be different to your friends).
            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/29/defectors-use-satellite-images-identify-north-korean-mass-graves/

            People protesting need to be asked the following from the memory bank of Thomas Sowell:
            The first is: ‘Compared to what?’
            The second is: ‘At what cost?’
            And the third is: ‘What hard evidence do you have?’

            The third one is possibly the first one to ask – no evidence then it’s hard to move forward.
            En Marche! (note that website for En Marche does not have Hijab – oh well)

               5 likes

      • Up2snuff says:

        I haven’t, tipple, so thanks for those links. Toynbee is poison, though, so I have to take her in small doses. And the BBC, for some strange reason I cannot quite fathom, appear to have been running with those same two strains on Radio 4 for the past two days, anyway.

        I hope for both the Guardian and the BBC that running with strains may worsen their condition to the point of their needing some ‘surgery’.

        Toynbee should have been sacked by the Guardian almost exactly one year ago today for her despicable assertions. Cut her out of their workforce now, please. Has the Guardian ever been called to account for that? Has it apologised?

        No? I thought not.

           8 likes

    • Alicia Sinclair says:

      Up2snuff.
      Got to agree.
      A useless moth eaten serial lefty thicko like Corbyn turns out to look more Prime Ministerial than Mrs May. I expect little off her.
      But surely she ought to be a better “politician” than Benns shoe horn.
      And listening to a David Gaulk on Channel 4 getting shouted over by Cathy Newman, I just sense that the whole Tory Party looks like it wants to curl up and die.
      No principle, no history. No sense of urgency or a wish to stand up to the left and their baying media bullies.
      Looks like we`ll need to get on with draining our own swamp here.
      No need to put up with this.

         11 likes

      • Wild says:

        The only (post-Churchill) Conservative who had balls was Margaret Thatcher.

           9 likes

        • Tom_Kenny says:

          What about Enoch Powell; Nicholas Ridley; Keith Joseph; Norman Tebbit?

             7 likes

          • Wild says:

            Sorry I meant Conservative PM’s. I remember going to a talk by Keith Joseph at university. The lecture theatre was packed. There was a howling mob of Leftists outside. He was very dignified. I met quite a few of the politicians of that era. Do they still visit universities? The one who impressed me most strangely enough was a Labour politician, David Owen, but he was not a Labour MP by then. The worst (on a personal level) was probably Ian Gilmour, an insufferable snob. I have had a slight prejudice against old Etonians ever since.

            No I correct myself, the worst was Edward Heath. He was exactly as you would expect him to be. Insufferable.

               11 likes

            • Tom_Kenny says:

              I’ve met Heath. It was like meeting a waxwork, the opposite of animated, although he would have been well into his 70s at the time.

                 7 likes

              • Fedup says:

                Pleased not to have met Heath . History will mark him down as another failed PM but the one who deceived Blighty into signing up to a Franco German love in which we might just be able to extract ourselves from.

                MSM has got its long term aim. Tories can do nothing right and corbyn can do nothing wrong. I just hope when they win their election they have a crazy majority. This is the only way jo public might wake up to what the vermin really are. Just depends how much more damage gets done.

                   7 likes

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