Looks like Dame Jenni Murray is about to join Germaine Greer in the unwanted by the BBC list.
Broadcaster Dame Jenni Murray has been criticised for making “hurtful remarks” after suggesting men who have had sex-change operations should not claim to be “real women”. Writing for the Sunday Times, the Woman’s Hour host said “it takes more than a sex change and make-up” to “lay claim to womanhood”. LGBTQ campaign group Stonewall called the comments “reductive”. But Dame Jenni said she was not “transphobic or anti-trans”. The Radio 4 presenter, 66, questioned whether someone who had enjoyed the privileges of growing up as a man could really be a woman.
I think Germaine Greer put it more succinctly when she noted…
“Just because you lop off your d**k and then wear a dress doesn’t make you a ******* woman. I’ve asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I’m going to wear a brown coat but that won’t turn me into a ******* cocker spaniel. “I do understand that some people are born intersex and they deserve support in coming to terms with their gender but it’s not the same thing. A man who gets his d**k chopped off is actually inflicting an extraordinary act of violence on himself.”
Such common sense is unwanted by the BBC.
Like the current Obama noose that surely will sweep the Left into its bin once Donald and team are through?
The idiot Left fail to see where their nasty logic ends up. In a sinister cul-de-sac. Still-good that they learn where “inclusiveness” and “non-judgement” leads to.
How come Jenni gets exclusive first class train seats on her endless freebies up north then?
*The idiot Left fail to see where their nasty logic ends up*
That’s because they use the logic at the wrong time in the wrong place.
They don’t use logic to come to their viewpoints and positions; that’s all down to emotion, how does it ‘feel’, and so on.
They only use logic to try to defend the position they have taken, and since that position is usually an absurd one with no relation to the facts, they have to contort their logic into untenable shapes. (Or revert to name-calling, which is more common).
Thomas Sowell said that there are 3 questions which will destroy any Leftist ‘argument’:
1. Compared to what?
2. At what cost?
3. Do you have any hard evidence?
You need logic for Science and Mathematics.
You need feelings and emotions for Art and Drama.
The Liberal-Left dominate the Arts and BBC Drama.
The Royal Opera House provides the BBC with these type of inferior idiots.
The notion that there are “emotions” on one side and “logic” on the other is the sort of misunderstanding that creates the nihilistic left in the first place.
G.K.Chesterton said that the last thing a madman loses is his reason. It is the starting point that counts. A conservative seeks to adjust to reality. A leftist seeks to replace reality. At their worst conservatives are resistant to progress. At their worst leftists are homicidal maniacs.
It is not a case of emotion v reason it is more a case of grown ups versus infants. Both have an emotional life, but the latter is wholly egotistical.
this is a bit personal for me. but i am not avoiding to make a comment on it just because i happen to be personally involved with the issue. i had a sex change a long time ago and although it was presented to me as a cure for my gender dysphoria i do not regret it. i feel good. i am not trying to pretend to be anyone. i am just happy to be happy with who i am. But it is a bit more complicated then cutting this off and adding that on. So in that sense, greer and murray are being a bit simplistic. but i support their freedom to express what they believe. I wonder though whether we would be talking like this if the subject were diabetes or depression or kidney failure. The thing is that although distant, that feeling of not being yourself in having to behave as men are expected to behave and do what men are expected to do is not very healthy and nice. It is a disease for those who experienced it. I do not have any issue with them saying that trans women are not real women. i have an issue with the BBC trying to silence them but also with those who forget that those who experience that state suffer and in one way or another are ill. What should i do if i look like martha now and have an ‘f’ on my passport and when naked i certainly still look like martha? ? Ask people to call me arthur and do as if nothing happened just because this is relevant to those who are not in that ‘boat’? Am i expected to use a urinal just because we have to do everything according to biology books? How? Is life just biology? how do you explain spirituality and religion then? Certainly not biology are they? Equally, should we call christian all those who do not do everything that the bible say word by word? But I am going out of context here…a bit…So I say good on them to be able to say what they think. But I still disagree with them politically. They supported and fought side by side with the liberal left that I disagree strongly with. So, ultimately bloody good riddance.
I hope your post gives those here who have prejudiced opinions pause for thought.
Thank you for the insight you have provided.
Fred
I was working in a voluntary capacity with an organisation where the leader decided to change from a man to a woman. Whilst I cannot go into details for fear that it could be identified, all I can say is that the person in question, once they had declared their intention, went on to destroy the company. Not intentionally, but they stopped working, they spent money the company didn’t have etc etc. But all the advice the Board received was that under the Equality Act, the Board were powerless. No policy that applied to every other employee did not apply to the new ‘she’. That is not equality. Other people may have crises in their lives, deaths and divorces but only transgendering gets unequal treatment. I cannot say more because the situation still exists. Suffice to say if ‘she’ had been doing a good job, the Board would not have minded.
but only transgendering gets unequal treatment.
I think you’ll find that the equalities act covers any number of various favourite groups, and that they all get the same unfair treatment.
Perhaps taking a look at A Vs Chief Constable of West Yorkshire might convince you ? Where the CC didn’t want a trans woman working as a PC and spent close to £1 Million attempting to prevent it, losing at every court hearing, but carrying on regardless until he lost at the law lords. I am a firm believer that public sector staff should be personally liable for the costs in cases like this when they blatantly waste public funds on cases they cannot win.
Then there is the horrible case of Redfearn Vs Serco where the Fascists did not include discrimination on the grounds of political belief in the ‘uman rights act, because they knew damn well it would be them doing the discriminating! Serco lost at the European court and the UK had to accept the whole of the ECHR.
This is why so called ‘hate crimes’ are such an affront to freedom & democracy, because a Fascist and oppressive government gets to chose which favoured groups are covered by its laws and which are not.
I have sympathy for anyone who feels so strongly that they are the ‘wrong’ sex that they undergo an operation to approximate to being of the opposite sex. My only remote experience of this is a friend of a friend who is a tranny, he became a she about 20 years ago and is apparently infinitely happier. Another good example would be the travel writer Jan Morris, who changed sex at a time when this was almost unheard of, and seems to have done well in her life as a woman. In a way, this is rather conservative, because it reaffirms that there are two sexes and one is either Arthur or Martha.
I think what I object to, as others have pointed out, is the whole ‘genderfluid’ stuff – people deciding they are Arthur one day and Martha the next, and then using this a political weapon to break down ideas of conventional social structures. Because such feelings are entirely subjective, it creates endless new special interest and victim groups perpetually set against each other, which is what we are seeing with the demonisation of formerly respected (by the left, at least) public figures such as Germaine Greer.
Neither Murray nor Greer are going to be remembered as great thinkers of our time, so I don’t imagine anyone is going to take their opinions very seriously.
As for the issue itself, I feel almost as sorry for the transgendered for the hijacking of their issue by cultural Marxism as I do for them having to suffer the actual condition. Transgenderism has become the latest battering ram in the Left’s attempt to destroy western civilisation.
As smart blacks, the disabled, homosexuals, the working class and others have long since realised, the Left picks its causes for political not empathic reasons and will use members of its chosen group then spit them out when they are done with them. They are every bit as evil and uncaring as the slave masters and mill owners of old.
It must be bad enough to have to suffer from gender dysphoria in the first place, without being callously weaponised by a group whose only aim is to use anyone and anything as a hammer to smash society. It’s not nice, being used as a hammer when you are made out of flesh and bone
.
Apologies for any offence but I am sick of this spineless, virtue-signal pandering to the militant, selfish and perverted ABCDEFGLGBQ mentally ill community. I have gay friends which I have no problem with so long as they don’t try to impose their lifestyle on me and my family, as I wouldn’t do to them. However, I do have a problem with psychotic geezers chopping their dumplings off, wearing a flowery dress and changing their name from Cecil to Cecelia. I also find it repugnant that officials are calling for ‘gender neutral’ bogs. Sorry, if you were born a Steve, you shouldn’t be able to become an Eve, in my opinion. The Lord giveth a man a doinker for good reason… and one shouldn’t chop it off under the pretence of claiming to be Petulia, who likes to bake cakes and do the ironing rather than drink beer and watch sport.
To be honest as a straight, boring, middle aged man I dont really care.
I can accept that gender dysmorphia is a condition that can cause extreme misery in some people and I have no problem with money being spent in serious cases for “corrective” surgery.
However what I find completly absurd is all the obsessing the BBC does over these issues. I think it is just more lefty white noise to make us all feel guilty about something else. We all know there are far more serious issues which affect all of us yet if the BBC really thinks that most us outside the metrosexual London bubble give half a hoot to anY of this they really must be living in some weird, ,arcane left wing, echo chamber!
Oaknash, as a fellow straight, boring, middle aged man, may I say that your comment is by far the most apt and erudite that I have read in this debate.
There are more serious issues.
London is not the centre of the universe.
I will not feel guilty because some BBC metrosexual tells me I should.
The “weird, arcane left wing, echo chamber” must be shut down.
By force if necessary – and I think it now is.
Okay but I am a Father of 3 kids I drink beer,ride motorcycles, climb mountains, but also can bake a cake and do my ironing, but I don’t watch sport.
These liberals should remember that what goes round comes round & that if you fight for a ‘better world’ you may not like the result, the world can bite you in the bum.
That is exactly what has happened to Greer and Murray – they have been hoist with their own liberal petard.
Far worse will befall such liberals if Islam does manage to gain any serious power in this country. No one will suffer worse than women.
GC,
Maybe they fantasise about gang rape until it actually happens to them. And it will be too late then.
The Left with their perpetual “compassion cultivation” are always on the sniff for the next niche grievance.
The trans lobby were , until recently just quietly getting on with life. Well known examples like Jan(formerly James) Morris were quiet, dignified and would only tell you what was required-certainly no lobby built around them to advocate for more than the right earn a crust and be treated as a fellow human being. Their sex lives wee not an issue, neither did the BBC choose to promote them as a favoured lifestyle.
But along came the needy endless agitations that the Left desire. Anything to push deviation of any kind into our drab, square beige faces.
So the likes of Paris Lees choose to get a living out of being exhibitionist women-haters all too often. The angrier end of the the drag act spectrum really don`t like women at all-the good people as ever are embarrassed, but(like decent Muslims) are not wanted, get threatened and are co-opted into the endless revolution. Your sex life ought to be a private matter-and your talent and integrity ought to ensure you get a living. As soon as you want the media to promote you-then that`s a dangerous road, sets real women up against constructed ones.
This is not to denigrate those who flatter us enough to imply that they want to be the same as us.But Greer and Murray are ultimately correct-and nobody secure in themselves need listen if that`s not their truth. But bullying us into comformity and compliance isn`t going to work.
Bravo.
The Left will eventually eat itself, as its positions, er, harden, and become ever more extreme and balkanised. It has already led to such absurdities as ‘Gays for Palestine’, the members apparently being unaware that if they ever went to Palestine, they would risk being thrown off a building.
I like the Paris story of the Muslim football team refusing to play the Gay team, accusing them of Islamophobia, while the Gay team was accusing the Muslim team of homophobia, but I doubt it actually happened that way. Sillier things will undoubtedly emerge, though.
It will unravel like Angkar, the name for Pol Pot’s organisation. After purging the general citizenry, they then found it necessary to purge those on the fringes of the party for not being sufficiently ‘pure’, and by the end, Pol Pot was purging his closest allies, all of whom were demonised as “traitors” and “puppets”.
We should play “Guess the next grievance” – people who want to marry their pet dog- why should only people be able to marry each other? Or my personal one – the BBC should reflect the number of people in the population who are over 6 foot tall. Blacks , Asians , women, the disabled ( in no particular order ) are respesented but what about tall people ??
Words are just words, and freedom of speech is essential for democracy, policing language and attempting to control the way people think (e.g. ‘political correctness’) is far worse for society than letting people spout shite sometimes.
How can you have a debate on a subject if people aren’t allowed to state a ‘controversial’ opinion in the first place? Without debate how can you ever change opinions, or challenge the status quo? Political correctness is the opposite of ‘progressive’, it’s actually stagnation, in the same way ‘positive discrimination’ is actually just the same old discrimination with new victims. Without controversy what are programmes like ‘Woman’s Hour’ except bland, repetitive recitation of some kind of officially sanctioned litany?
As an aside, I find it fascinating that these dried up, old feminists hate men so much that they even hate those men who go through, what can only be extremely difficult and stressful procedures, to become women (or ‘almost women’ if you prefer their point of view)… like them. Surely it’s a form of tribute that some men want to become women, a ‘success’ for feminism? Or is the point actually, if some men want to be women, perhaps it isn’t so bad being a woman after all? Or is the reality that gender identity actually is a deep psychological divide for the vast majority, and men and women aren’t ‘the same’ at all?
Why don’t they say female-male transexuals aren’t ‘real men’ I wonder? To misquote from that spout of ‘wisdom’, Germaine Greer, it’s not as if “burning your bra and wearing jeans makes anyone a fucking man” is it?
Phew, I’m glad it’s Jenni Murray, from within the soft left Guardian/BBC echo chamber. Imagine the squealing had it been a conservative, UKIP councillor or the Daily Mail that offered that view.
I wonder how many ” be PC” notices the BBC hand out to their employees. I would have thought if whoever is responsible for issuing them would punt them out like confetti in case they themselves should be criticised – in that Stalinist system the BBC inhabit.
But if you are a Fisherman from Grimsby, its your only chance of getting to be the local Labour MP.
It gives me a nice warm feeling when I watch Liberals being attacked by their own kind Being savaged by a monster they helped create.
“I think Germaine Greer put it more succinctly”
And this guy didn’t do too badly an all!:
I show the following statement in case you didn’t see it last time .
“GLAAD Has A Problem With Men Playing Transgender Women
Just let the [following] headline sink in a minute:
The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) has a problem with Hollywood using men to portray transgender women in films. GLAAD’s Director of Programs Nick Adams said that Hollywood needs to get over the idea “that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman.”
Let that sink in for another minute.
You see, while Adams is happy that Hollywood has successfully put transgender individuals at the front and center of various TV shows and projects– like TLC’s I Am Jazz and E!’s I Am Cait– he doesn’t understand why Hollywood thinks it’s OK to use men to play transgender women. I mean, you can’t just put a man in a dress and wig and call him a woman, am I right?
There’s so much unintentional irony in this.”
http://www.chicksontheright.com/glaad-problem-men-playing-transgender-women/?utm_source=YC&utm_medium=YC&utm_campaign=YC
Same happened with John Humphrys.
He apparently said that the murder of Jo Cox was less a “terrorist” event than a “mental health” issue.
Cue howls of outrage from the Liberal Left types who seem to think that THEIR use of the urnings of Jo Cox is the only permitted view.
Typical grave robbing scum-but, hey after Millie Dowler what ELSE do we expect of the BBC these days. Humphrys is well past it-but at least he said it.