From 6.30am this morning, the BBC has been on a full drive to rebut the claims from the LEAVE camp in the EU referendum. See below. Can Laura make sure that she adds such a caution to EVERY claim by Cameron and his elitist cronies? Thanks
On road with Vote Leave today – take their claims today we’d be on hook for billions extra if we stay in EU with bucket of salt
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) June 6, 2016
I’m glad to see the comments are taking her to task on that.
Dont know why we should take her to task. Can someone explain?
Troll alert (again)
I think weve already established you have no ideas mr hunt
Manon aka Scott, aka Jerrod, aka Zero, part time BBC assistant
Bless,
GWF,
They may not all be the same person, just because they have the same writing styles and opinions. Maybe they are clones !
Clones or clowns?
Doesn’t matter really.
Actually, Manon/MoCO has a point. Why should we take Laura Kuenssberg to task? Someone in BBC Senior Management should be doing that right now. What are these people paid such huge salaries for? Just to ummh and aahhh and pat her on the head? She should be reminded about the required impartiality and warned that more offences could be sackable ones.
In my view, her work as Political Editor has not been outstanding so far nor has her output been up to the mark of her predecessors. More reasons to suggest she either steps down from post or leaves the BBC?
The reality Manon/MoCO has to face is that because of that BBC management deficiency there is one more reason for this web-site to exist and for members here to post their comments.
I think she should be taken to task for saying Vote leave claims should be taken with a bucket of salt.
The state funded BBC should try to show some semblance of even handedness. Her personal opinions on the referendum should be kept to herself when she is at work.
shelly,
The BBC don’t care any more. They survived the Charter Review so that will only increase their bias. Why should I have to pay for an organistion’s political views which I abhor ? As for Laura, utterly third rate.
“As for Laura, utterly third rate. ”
I disagree. That’s a standard that she continually fails to achieve.
“I disagree. That’s a standard that she continually fails to achieve.”
Hilarious! LOL 😀
Demon,
LOL !
“They survived the Charter Review so that will only increase their bias.”
A genuine question. Does the outcome of the Charter Review give the BBC a guarantee that non payment of the licence fee will remain a criminal offence?
If it doesn’t, then if Leave win and Cameron goes, an excellent first step for the new PM will be to decriminalise non payment. The BBC’s first baby step into the real world.
The other day I saw on BBCV TV a presenter saying that the facts about the EU would be given by her. I find that very strange as the BBC are the propaganda arm of the EU. Of course they have a cosy relationship with the ECB, soft loans available. I work on the principle that if the BBC say something I will assume the opposite.
Oh look! Another gobshite lefty with their head so far up their own arse, they are a one man human centipede!
The Al mujahideen Beeb are the first to go all Chuck Norris on those who they (the bigoted left) feel are in conflict of interest! An Al Beed fatwa will be issued on those who carry out the most evil sins of all and say something even remotely sexist or islamatruthic! Even if those words are spoken in private!
The Al mujahideen Beeb is by law supposed to be impartial (haha!!! I know hilarious right??). Clearly left-luny Laura should be keeping her self-serving, gravy train – platform ending, opinions to herself, if she is pretending to be impartial in her reporting for the Al Beed! We know that the whole Al Beed establishment is pro -EU and is why they are breaking the law. It’s why the propaganda tax should be banned so only like-minded delusionists pay for it!
We all know that the Al Beed is and utterly biased and deplorable organisation you complete bell-end! It’s why this website exists!
Havent seen any yet!
We can’t cut cost of fuel for elderly people, tampons, the energy cost of our steel firms, the EU budget, because of “our slavish adherence to EU rules”, he [Boris] says.
He says David Cameron “explicitly gave up our veto” to stop the formation of a United States of Europe in February and we will be forced to continue to “prop up the Euro.”
If we make the mistake of staying we cannot protect this county from the rapid growth of immigration, which he says is in part because of the failure of the Euro in some countries.
Accusing the Remain campaign of “rattling” and says its time to “wash those unelected Bureaucrats out of our hair.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-referendum-brexit-row-david-cameron-tim-farron-boris-johnson/
Plenty of good, pro-Leave sentiments to choose from for a headline here.
But what does the BBC lead with?
Oh yes, of course.
“Cameron: Brexit like ‘economic bomb'”.
The Blatently Biased Corporation at it’s finest once again.
Unfortunately whether you like it or not you have already given up Soveriegnty through globalisation. Think how many multinationals own Britain. You invariably fly in spanish owned aircraft eat at South African takeaways ,ride in French owned trains and soon will be using French nuclear energy paid through the nose by the British to China and charged out at exorbitant rates for the next 30 years. Furthermore due to the wonderful system you either support or dont even know about foriegn capital is buying up real estate and sending land and property values through the roof.
We most certainly do not need a cap on economic migrants. We do however urgently need capital controls to balance domestic demand with the required capital . Otherwise there will be nothing left either to the idea of democracy or soveriegnty. Funnily enough this is precisely what neo liberals are talking about at the moment with the view of making free trade the priority over all else.
The upshot is that even if you like to wave your Union Jack ,made in China, it will be completely meaningless.
As to Boris I suppose you all do realise he was behind the ‘straight Banna’ story and a miriad of others for which he earnt a ‘piffling £250k’ at the Telegraph. Dont be fooled .He’s laughing at convincing a lot of fools to vote for so he will get to be our next ruler. He is also laughing ,because being a half American, he doesnt need to do his business through Panama.
Manonclaphamomnibus
Nice to see you back, the last we heard of you was the ‘wheels had come off your bus’ .
Coincidently as I have already posted, the decline in British industry started as soon as we entered the so called ‘Common Market’. Speaking as a person who has actually suffered because of it – and sadly I add, a number of times. We obeyed the rules and they bent them behind our back.
Your posts here will certainly (not) promote Al Beeb.
The decline of british industry started in the late 1800’s. By 1899 our economy was being eclipsed by Germany and the US. So much so we used German dyes for British uniforms in the first world war.
The near-40% of our non-war based industrial capacity we lost in fighting the Germans in WW1 was in no way helped by the loans we took from the US to finance that war (and only repaid at the beginning of this millenium). Nor, indeed, by the further 25% loss of industrial capacity in fighting the Germans AGAIN in WW11 with loan financing from, would you believe it, the US again.
Can you see a common theme here? The US was certainly glad to see our industrial capacity so brutally cut down; it removed their greatest competitor.
Some merit in what you say. My position is that leaving the EU is just the start of reclaiming this land. The situation we are in is not improved by our membership of what is a banker/ neo libcon benefit society.
I take it capital controls means exactly that. This strikes at the heart of the whole foul system that is making us into neo serfs of capital.
The whole quantative easing scam has refinanced the bankrupt banks at the expense of the citizen.
Wholly indefensible to a conservative mind. The derisory interest rates paid to savers and to pension funds ( this is a serious future problem) is a result of this and has benefited only the utterly useless bankers.
It is because a start has to be made in restoring reality to our people that leaving the EU is so necessary. Once again it will be just the start and there is a real hard struggle and a hard time ahead.
QE has refinanced the banks indeed, but also maintained the balances you held there.
Now if banks were allowed to fail and take your and my savings with them that sounds a good idea, so we should immediately suspend the guarantee?
The fiat money used to refinance the banks could equally have been used to guarantee ( via the Bank of England ) any deposits held by us citizens. All savings should have been lodged with the B of E . There was no necessity to prop up the zombie( they still are ) banks at all. It remains true that we face a pensions timebomb that is a by product of this QE. The funds are losing income hand over fist as interest paid is so low.
This is the next financial mess we will face. it is already affecting the US.
Sounds as though you want a one way bet with your savings.
When you place your money somewhere and it works out it, is clever you, but if it goes wrong it must be the fault of someone else and you want compensation or protection?
Risk and reward is capitalism.
Want no risk?- Then put it in the mattress. Oh wait there is still a risk there, but definitely no reward.
Unfortunately whether you like it or not you have already given up Soveriegnty through globalisation. Think how many multinationals own Britain.
Multinationals don’t make our laws or control our borders. Most of it is currently under the governance of a bunch of unelected, unaccountable, factcat bureaucrats in Brussels – or hadn’t you noticed?
We most certainly do not need a cap on economic migrants.
Depends what you mean. If that includes millions arriving on our shores without a job (and they will, given the chance), then it is blatantly obvious why a cap is necessary – if you are unable to see that you are either ignorant or an anarchist or both.
The upshot is that even if you like to wave your Union Jack ,made in China.
Do I detect a whiff of lefty self-hatred? I suspect like any lefty you hate the concept of patriotism unless applied to any country except England/Britain (and most likely America and Israel too).
But getting back to the point, can you explain why Kuinssberg should be expressing an opinion when the BBC allegedly prides itself on its ‘impartiality’ (sound of snorting ironic laughter).
johnny,
Top post. Britain has traded with the rest of the world for hundreds of years and no-one questioned our sovereignty until we joined what is now the EU. I don’t think we need to make Union Jacks in the UK to be free again !
Cheers Grant. I remember Man With The Clap from some months back – he starts off seeming like he’s looking to engage in serious debate but before long the old Leftie Tourette’s starts to kick in and he’s off on one (several, in fact).
johnny,
I noticed. Interesting study though !
To understand the issues check out neoliberalism and financialisation. I think its quite true that multinationals dont make some laws but it is also true that they will increasingly make the ones that regulate trade, jobs,wages, land use,financial policy/law most financial metrics, education, care,medicine,energy just to mention a few.
Under the current regime ,which was cooked up by the UK and the US and not the EU , you are now regarded as a commodity in a country with an ever shrinking state.
In future people will have no say on their kids education ( thats already happening), they will have no say in their health provision. They will also have very little say in how their debts are managed and who they end up owing and on what terms. They will have no recorse to the law or any dispute over their home or many of their possesions. If they are poor they will have no choice as to where they will live and for how long they will live there.
Meanwhile most will geat poorer and will be steared by rich non doms , who have never paid any UK tax like Murdock, into thinking its the foriegners that have caused this.
Basically because every other country will suffer in the same way everyone will blame everyone else. The eventual outcome will be war for certain.
Have fun voting brexit and flying the Union Jack. It will be a good distraction from having done potentially the greatest diservice to everyone around you that could possibly done.
Grammar, punctuation and spelling definitely struggling today.
New intern on duty?
“Have fun Manon voting Corbyn and flying the red flag and doing potentially the greatest disservice to everyone around you that you possibly could”.
Have fun voting brexit and flying the Union Jack. It will be a good distraction from having done potentially the greatest diservice to everyone around you that could possibly done.
So, Clapping Man, what is at about a bloated, unelected, corrupt dictatorship that appeals to you most and what track record have bloated, unelected, corrupt dictatorships got in furthering the aims of democracy and economic prosperity? You can use the Euro and Greece as examples if you like…
And being obviously of the Left, what is it that compels you to try to defend the BBC? (‘Try’ being the operative word as I see you haven’t been able to defend Kuinssberg’s lack of impartiality.) And you may like to defend the tax-dodging antics of several very well-paid BBC employees as you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about ‘Murdock’, assuming you are referring to that Australian chappie who is a constant target of the Left for having the temerity to run his own media empire whose news coverage is a small fraction of the poll-tax funded BBC’s.
And finally, what is it about the Union Jack that offends you so?
Manon,
So what you are saying is remain in the EU, support Corbyn and get involved with Left Unity. However, forget Venezuela and the Greek hopes for Syzria. I think Left Unity are now looking towards Podomo and all in Spain.
“The upshot is that even if you like to wave your Union Jack ,made in China.”
Well here are some flags not made in China , they are made in a nation called Wales, its part of this beloved island called Great Britain .
Bet the term ‘Great Britain’ turns your stomach .
http://www.mrflag.com/product-category/professional-quality-flags/ensigns-jacks/
Note their punch line ‘For People with Wind’ – ideally suited for ‘the man on the clapped out bus’.
MoCo “Unfortunately whether you like it or not you have already given up Soveriegnty (sic) through globalisation.”
Absolutely right! But the thing is, we can compete with that globalisation. We are capable. We have the clout. But in the EU, do you not agree, the UK trying to compete on the world stage is like having one arm tied behind your back in a boxing match?
Then there’s governance. In the EU we cannot fully determine what happens here, can we?
Your answers to those two questions are awaited.
The BBC left all consideration towards impartiality in this debate behind a long time ago, and have this plastered all over the website this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120
Whilst there probably is a grain of truth in the story (who would accept that MPs carry any integrity whatsoever?) there is also an element of an attempt to get people to understand that !it doesn’t matter what they vote, we will stay anyway” about it.
Pretty scurulous stuff… and unsubtle too!
How would you be able to asses whether there is a grain of truth in this or not?
The only way to assess something is to consider all aspects of an issue before judging whether something is balanced. Lets see some analysis can we.
Troll alert (again)
This one is the Manon with better spelling, punctuation and grammar compared with whoever he/she was late last night.
So they’re saying they’d take us back into the EEA after leaving the EU, without holding another referendum? (a) not credible and (b) incredible contempt of the electorate if so. And in any case, the EU have said “non” already!!
Laura Kuenssberg is rumoured to be earning £200,000 a year for her expertise yet she dismisses the leave campaign claim that the EU will cost us more and more as total rubbish.
A quick internet search on UK EU contributions clearly shows they have been increasing year on year
Tabs
The growth in contributions reflect the growth in the UK economy ( plus a few other bits) thats how each member state is calculated. If the UK economy collapsed the contribution would go down. If we leave , and the economy does collapse, which it will, then our contribution will go down until the formal divorce.
Manon, I think you mis-typed – I assume you meant to say thast if we stay in the economy will collapse, exactly like all of the previous collapses we’ve had since being members (eg 2008, 1992). Same as Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus etc. Our only hope is Brexit where we would be able to adjust things if our economy starts having problems, unlike now where we suffer but can do nothing about it. Hence austerity, increase in national debt etc. And that’s saying nothing about restoration of freedom and democracy which we will lose forever if we stay in.
Spot on Demon, but please don’t feed the troll, he’s just fishing for people to argue with so he goes around posting inflammatory ideas. He’s new this morning – good to see we have a better class of troll now 🙂 Hopefully will be sent packing shortly…
It’s an old BBC name resurrected. This name was a persistent one some time ago. I must admit I misread what he’d typed and clicked on like, saw the name and re-read – my mistake. Trouble is I’ve done it to another of his posts as well. Premature senility I think!!
“It’s an old BBC name resurrected.” Ah OK, thanks for that – I didn’t realise the name was recycled! Re the mistaken “likes” – easy to do btw – at least it explains they mystery – there was me, thinking he was liking his own posts! LOL 🙂
Are you sure it’s resurrected? It might be the same guy. Perhaps it’s just that his parole has finally come through.
I think it used to look like there were different writing styles. All with the same, completely predictable, opinion – no doubt provided by their BBC bosses.
I wonder if they have lost the ability to think of a new name so have reverted to old ones. See if we get the return of some other old “favourites”.
Maybe we are giving them more attention than they deserve !
There was a ManontheClaphamOmnibus years ago, in the days of Sagamix, Andy555, Writingsonthewall, puzzledmushroom, et al, posting on the BBC Blogs. A large number of those have disappeared; some re-appear briefly before fading away again.
Perhaps he/she will be kind enough to let us know whether they are one & the same.
You really are stupid. Yes I posted before and boringly you all thought it was loads of people using one id. Well it wasnt and it isnt and I do not support the BBC news output. I also do not support the mindless iteration of half baked ideas from the gutter press or indeed believe guilty people float and innocent ones sink.
Manonclaphamomnibus
“I do not support the BBC news output.”
Show us your Al Beeb bias and Prove it .
Trolling much?
Mike Hunt
Clapped out bus man is a good add for this site. He draws attention to Al Beeb’s Bias with his posts .
I don’t think he knows, but he does Al Beeb a disservice.
You really are stupid.
Ah, the old ad hominem ploy.
No I meant what I said. The economic collapses you refer to are the result of too much credit caused by securitisation, arbitrage and plain fraud. This has left the world economy flat. The problem with the UK coming out of the EU is that with a 7% balance of payments deficit, 4% budget deficit, collapsing investment in the real economy and falling productivity any shock will make things worse,potentially a lot worse. Whilst we are in the EU We will still have to contribute over the negotiation period I believe.
Plain fraud. Yes, that’s where lots of the EU’s (my) money goes.
Collapsing investment and falling productivity – references please.
Just as Gordon Brown’s policies achieving a 20% devaluation of Sterling to the Euro gave our recovery a mighty boost you do not think that the project Fear projections of a decent drop will not boost our exports, make imports more expensive, and so encourage home produced replacement, and of course exceed any tariffs put on our exports?
Win, win I believe is the result of leaving.
Er not exactly. We arent talking about trivial sum like your contibutions we are talking about trillions on the money markets that is basically made up ie. It isnt backed by real goods.
As to the other points,turning around an economy from non production or severe underproduction would take decades of investment. As I said before that investment wont come from indiginous sources it will come from the international money markets. Our country is already substantially owned by foreigners leaving the EU wont change that. I understand the sentiment that in some way we can go it alone Maybe 100 years ago, but now international capital is such that that notion is woefully misplaced. My advice is learn Mandarin and learn to forrow order like a good chinaman if you want to vote Brexit. The money will have to come from somewhere!
Manonclaphamomnibus
Staying in the EU is akin to purchasing a ticket on the Titanic.
The EU is about to go down economically and it would drag us down with it – Germany needs us ‘in’ only to help them out financially and to take up all the immigrants that they so foolishly invited in.
Great Britain if full repeat ‘full’.
taffman,
Yes. They just want our money and somewhere immigrants prefer to go than their countries. Naked self-interest and we shout be the same and get out. With the British it should be ” No more Mr. Nice Guy “.
Absolutely right. But leaving is like sitting in a rowing boat in the high seas. The problem is neo liberal economics. It is destroying countries their soveriegnty and the many for the benefit of the few.
In that situation we can row AND steer for home, Manon.
In the EU we have to get agreement for both – individually – first, unless we do a Mutti Merkel.
You love the word neo-liberal do you not.
Is that the word you would use to describe the economics of the EU as a whole?
In which case you would seem to be natural supporter of regaining our sovereignty so you can help Jezza to gain power here and put a stop to it here at least, and of course make everybody poorer, which is the inevitable result of socialism.
Manon for leave then?
My advice is learn Mandarin and learn to forrow order like a good chinaman if you want to vote Brexit. The money will have to come from somewhere!
That seems to imply that if we stay in the EU that’s where the investment will come from. Surely you didn’t mean that? All they seem to be giving us at the moment is their unemployment problem. So if we leave why does it change the existing relationship with China, apart maybe from an import tariffs/trade agreement point of view?
Yes, our kids should be learning mandarin, if they can master english that is. China is going up while the EU is sinking and becoming increasingly irrelevant. There are even signs that some things in Africa are improving. The EU is a almost a dead duck. It is just taking a long time to die.
It is still worth the risk of leaving. This is about the future of our people and who rules. Same as in 1642. I know which side I would have taken then and do now. In 1642 the risks as it proved were far greater than mere financial loss.
Dave S
‘Risk of leaving’ ?
When were taken in to the Common Market by Heath we were never warned about the ‘risk of joining’. We were betrayed then and we are betrayed now .
In 1649 Charles 1 “was accused of treason against England by using his power to pursue his personal interest rather than the good of the country”
Substitute Charles 1 with ‘our Dave’.
Are there any Tory supporters on this site who still support him?
There are Tory supporters no doubt but they are not the same as conservatives. No conservative can support Cameron on any thing important.
DaveS and Taffman,
Agreed !
taffman “Are there any Tory supporters on this site who still support him?”
Only for being as good as his word and giving us the Referendum! 😉
One of the few General Election pledges that have been kept so promptly.
He promised it sooner . Nigel Farage got us the chance of freedom.
taffman, good point.
Dave has flip-flopped around on a lot of things. UK being strong out of EU, then not. Turkey being fast tracked, then not. High taxes being the ones to be reduced, then 4% on already high Council Tax for April 2016-on. High tax on road fuels being bad & scheduled for cuts and now possible diesel fuel tax increases on the way.
At least we do have 23rd June, although I don’t like this Voter Registration deadline re-run. That was unwise of Cameron to go further than midnight tonight. If it’s a close result either way, his position will be even weaker than it is now.
Hope there are no more hiccoughs on the way to 23rd June.
Up2snuff
‘Dave has flip-flopped around on a lot of things’. You bet!
He was quite happy to walk away from the EU if he did not get his so called ‘big deal’ – No threat of Plague, War and Pestilence then. But as soon as it looks as if we are ‘getting out’ the EU and the whole world suddenly becomes doomed!
Why are there no Tory supporters on this site ready to defend him ? And come to think of it, where is Essexman ?
Think he posts on the BBC Blogs, taffman, but there hasn’t been much available today only a HYS on Hilary Clinton on the main pages. I have been checking to see if the BBC would let us comment on Voter Registration but apparently they do not deem it safe enough or important enough or somesuch.
Am I a Tory? I don’t know. I am a conservative (please, please note the small c) but am a rebel (liberal?) on much that the Party chooses to do and/or the way in which they do it. For example, I am in favour of Benefits reform but came over all Harry Enfield-like when I D-S got going after 2010: ” ‘ere, you don’t want to do it like thaaat, you wanna do it like this!”. Am also moving slightly ‘leftwards’ in old age.
I didn’t approve the Conservatives choice of Cameron in 2005 (had no say as am not a member) and have not warmed to him since. Rather the reverse. Have encountered or know people who speak well of him, either after meeting him directly or at one remove from people who have.
I think David Cameron is very much the ‘Heir to Blair’ and is of the same ilk. But at least we don’t have Brown or Miliband as PM.
Look on the bright side!
Counting his pennies
Dave has been through more flip-flops that a Chinese Rickshaw man.
LOL ! Good one !
Also LOL! Maybe, he’ll be all at sea after 23rd June – all being well from my pov – and not long after that washed up somewhere, metaphootwearically speaking!
Dave has been through more flip-flops than a Chinese Rickshaw man.
(I was too late)
Blatant bias from Laura ! Any pretence at impartiality by the BBC given up long time ago. Why should I be paying for their crap ?
The BBC – Bollocks to Britain Campaign.
@Tabs
Sounds like she doesn’t have a clue. (Apart from what her bosses tell her to report.)
Not to mention the additional EU contributions we’ll be asked to find, now that existing EU budget “flexibility” has been exhausted…
And of course the EU has put off voting on the next budget until after the referendum – so as not to give Brexiters more ammunition. (Hint: so it’s probably not going to go down, then!)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/04/britain-asked-for-more-cash-as-migrant-crisis-strains-eu-budget/
Mike,
I don’t think that Laura is the sharpest tool in the box ! And Economics is a foreign country to her !
Not on the BBC: Brexit takes 2% lead, after 3 new polls. https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/
Overall poll of polls*:
Remain: 43.1%
Leave: 45.5%
Undecided: 11.2%
(NB. The FT hasn’t updated their overall poll-of-polls figure to reflect the latest polls.)
* For statisticians (others please avert your eyes – geek alert!):
The FT says its calculation is as follows:
The FT poll of polls is calculated by taking the last seven polls from unique pollsters up to a given date, removing the two polls with the highest and lowest shares for ‘remain’, and calculating an adjusted average of the five remaining polls, where the more recent polls are given a higher weight
They don’t say exactly what weighting they give but it’s impossible to come up with a coherent one which puts “Remain” in the lead, so either they’re cheating or they’re behind the times 😉
Taking the seven most recent polls and eliminating the highest and lowest polls as per the FT’s method leaves five polls. If we then assign a weighting of 5 to the most recent poll, 4 to the next-most-recent-poll and so on, down to a weighting of 1 for the oldest poll, and you get:
Remain: 43.1%
Leave: 45.5%
Undecided: 11.2%
Well it is a long time since I did statistics as a unit at university but this system seems strange. However, the FT are Remainers, so they will maybe have fiddled it. Which , if true, would give Leavers a much bigger lead .
Really interesting poll report on the verdict of DT readers in the paper today.
Strongly in the leave camp, but the really important fact is that the top reason is sovereignty.
The one area that, for some inexplicable reason, remain never ever bring up unless forced to by a question.
sovereignty should be the number one topic in all Leave broadcasts, press releases etc.
It is the one area where FACTS are a fact not someone’s best (or worst in many cases) guess at something that may / not happen in the future.
If we leave we will DEFINITELY regain control over a huge swathe of matters.
Do not hold your breath for Laura to big it up though.
I agree. We are a self governing nation, or we are not. At present, we are not.
We joined the EEC in 1973, at the nadir of our post-war economic performance, a time of blackouts, three day weeks, miners’ strikes etc. Britain seemed on the verge of oblivion, and the EEC (of just six nations remember) offered hope and economic success.
Britain recovered economically, not because of the EEC, but because of the reforms of the 1980s, the sort of reforms the Communists are still fighting in France. The EU is a failed economic experiment, and that is the only reason the British wanted to be in it, no-one really wants the EU nation with its trappings of sovereignty and five presidents.
When we are out of the EU, we will regain our national sovereignty, and the right to make our own laws, and our own mistakes if need be. Matters such as trade deals are being made every day, they are a detail in the grand scheme of things. We don’t need to make a trade off between our national independence and trade deals. The deals will be made because they are beneficial to both parties to the agreement, and for no other reason. But national independence cannot be given away lightly just on the basis of access to some transitory trade arrangement.
No we are not a self governing nation. Thats a total myth. If we were why dont we keep house prices at a level where people can by them. If you want to talk about soveriegnty then you might like to define it. As I said somewhere earlier trade expansion and deals like TTIP ,CETA act totally against the idea of soveriegnty and democracy. The way its heading the only thing you will be is a consumer in a gigantic worldwide market. If you find yourself at the bottom of the pile in terms of a job then you can take comfort in the fact that your equivalents will be house in a tin shed by a railroad in Calcutta. This is idea is under active discussion amongst the IMF and World bank. Its real!
Manonclaphamomnibus
The price of houses is determined by supply and demand .
More immigrants, more demand for houses , more cues for council houses / social housing .
So, where is your post on Al Beeb’s bias ?
House prices are ,as you say, in the world of the unreal. At the current rate of increase the first time buyer will cease to exist in a twelvemonth. Which effectively destroys the real market although I have no doubt it will continue to operate in a fantasy economic wasteland.
We on the conservative right ( not the Tory so called right) have to face up to a real problem. How to construct an economic system that preserves the nation and it’s traditions and happiness. The left has tried and failed. As an absolute essential we must preserve our freedom and our law.
It is a task for the future but an essential first step is to regain the right of our parliament to decide everything important. There is no other way.
The world of the consumer serf or the world of a free man. We will have to choose and that is the problem for in choosing the latter we will have to take on the world you describe.
This choice may well decide the future not only of this country but of Europe itself.
This is absolutely spot on!
“No we are not a self governing nation.”
That’s what I said. When we are in the EU, we are not self governing. The only way to regain self government is to vote to leave on 23rd June. I take it you do not want to stay in this corrupt organisation?
Manon, a mistake there in that example. If we were out of the EU we could legislate on house prices and impose a set selling price. (I don’t advocate or recommend that, by the way.) However, in the EU it would not be possible to do that for any house owned by an EU citizen, especially from another country.
As to globalisation and being in a world market, I’m not sure you are talking to the right people here as it appears most are in favour of leaving.
One of my economic arguments for leaving is that the EU is backward looking, protectionist and only engaging with globalisation at a snail’s pace. OK, that’s three arguments for leaving. Remember the UK’s last Trade Commissioner? He spent four years in a job putting up the cost of products for us citizens of the EU while feathering his own nest very nicely.
Er, yes. That’s another economic argument for leaving. Cheaper goods from overseas, especially raw materials which are essential for our manufacturing sector.
Sometimes the media’s race baiting doesn’t go to plan.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/05/two-americans-turn-table-on-agenda-driven-univision-journalist/
Rebel,
That is a brilliant clip and one of the guys is black ! That horrible reporter got what she deserved . What a nasty piece of work. I urge posters here to watch this one. Less than 2 minutes . It is brilliant . I love it when she says ” Do you like Hispanics ? ” and he replies ” Do you like Hispanics ? ” Made my day !
Please excuse the rant. I am in the office without a roof (otherwise known as the terrace) and it’s quite hot…I’ve removed three of the “fucking”s from the text to appease the sensibilities of the easily offended but left just one in. That one. This is like a notice that says “Please do not throw stones at this notice”. Here’s the rant…
How is it possible for apparently sensible politicians (please try to ignore the oxymoron) to attempt to make a positive case for abdicating from their responsibilities to manage a government?
It’s the government’s job to set the legislature and regulatory framework that governs the way the country operates. Like it or no, that’s the case and on the whole, depending on your political persuasion, we’ve done a reasonably decent job over the last 1000 years or so. Democracy means that if you don’t like something that the government (i.e. a body elected by us to serve us) does then we can get rid of them at the next election. It keeps them somewhat honest and, let’s face it, no country anywhere in the world has ever come up with a better system of governance.
Now we get people lionising the EU for coming up with regulations that help us, the British people. And remember that we don’t elect the decision makers in the EU commission – FFS, nobody even knows who they are. And yet people are expected to believe that this inefficient, faceless, bureaucratic, cynical, mess of an expensive political racket is doing good things for us? Honestly you couldn’t make it up? Let’s put it in simple terms.
Let’s say that I’d quite like to have fish and chips for dinner. Now in a democracy, if I governed myself, I could if I wanted go and buy fish and chips. There. Nice. Done. But what instead if I said that I’d like a neighbour in the next village, Brussels, to decide for me what I should have for my dinner. And let’s say that he came up with a recommendation that twice per year under certain circumstances, provided I pay a million pounds a second to him, that I will have fish and chips whether I wanted it or not. What would you say to me if I told you that thanks to this person, it’s now possible for me to have fish and chips. You’d say I was an idiot. That is what abdication of responsibility looks like.
Harriet Harmon today said, I’m paraphrasing but it’s close, in a particularly cynical attempt at a headline soundbite: “The Portuguese person next to you in the NHS is more likely to be a nurse than a patient”. Really? So what? The illiterate violent jihadi from Pakistan isn’t. And nobody’s arguing about millions of Portuguese invading us intent on replacing our society with theirs. I don’t know many Portuguese people but I suspect that they are quite happy where they are, or at least not keen to swap Portugal for the UK. Anyway, that’s all irrelevant because this entire discussion about migrants has been highjacked and replaced with straw man bollocks.
The argument is not about whether some migration is good and proper for the UK – it absolutely is. It’s about whether we should have the right to choose who is allowed to become part of our society. Let’s say that you have a choice (which you wouldn’t if you are in the EU). You can have a 25 year old illiterate Pakistani who thinks that if one of his several wives gets raped by one of his countrymen then she should be stoned to death, that the gay man across the street should be thrown off the roof and that you, his neighbour, should be killed because you are an infidel. He has no skills and expects to live on welfare and take advantage of our healthcare system. Sadiq Khan will propel him to the front of the queue for housing paid for by you. That’s option one but don’t choose yet – you can bank Mohammed for now. Let’s look at an alternative, you might not like option 2 any better (personally, I think you will)…
Or would you like someone like Harriet Harmon’s Portuguese nurse who comes here to make a net positive contribution to society, pay taxes and respect our culture. You have the choice. Is it one that on balance you think it would be useful to have? I do. Regardless of whether you choose Mohammed or Emilia, the point is that you are free to choose. So why, why, why are we being fed the line that if we exit the EU then that’s it, no more Portuguese nurses – Emilia go home?
And to add insult to injury, Cameron says that leaving won’t protect our borders. What? You fucking (sorry, that one slipped through) moron? Being able to choose who does and who doesn’t live here won’t protect us? We can, and will, stop Emilia but we can’t stop Mohammed because we, erm, control the border?
What planet does he think we are on? It’s our country – regaining our sovereignty means that we get to choose. And Cameron wants us to believe something different? He’s lost the plot.
soyelcaminodelfuturo
Nice post , you have my sentiments .
In a nut shell how about an Australian Points Based System?
Just vote out “you know it makes sense”.
Mine too! Big fan of the points-based system, and luckily we already have one – for non-EU nationals – The United Kingdom’s points-based 5 tier visa system
So all the muslims in this country are because of the EU. This is news indeed particular given the separate figures provided by the immigration service.
As to EU migrants there is nothing to suggest that many of them will not return to their country of of origin.
Given ,we are told unemployment is continually dropping and even the Leave campaign acknowledge similar levels of immigration are required in the future then your remarks seem a little premature unless you are keen on damaging future growth.
As to soveriegnty you and your mates have missed the boat. That got sold off years ago. How much do actually think the UK actually owns of its own country?
The only boat we are missing is the ‘EU Titanic’
Vote leave.
Where is your Al Beeb bias ?
Harriet Harmon today said, I’m paraphrasing but it’s close, in a particularly cynical attempt at a headline soundbite: “The Portuguese person next to you in the NHS is more likely to be a nurse than a patient”
So the 4 million foreigners (and that’s only net) that have joined us in the last 12 years or so are all nurses or similar?
We had 13 years of that stupid cow treating us like imbeciles and she’s still at it.
And why can’t she get a nursing job in Portugal ? I mean Harriet Harman, of course.
So out. And, for those that haven’t guessed from my name-handle thingy, I’m 100% committed to remaining (quite literally) in Europe, I love Europe and Europeans. Just not the EU. Can’t say that I have much influence over Spain but I think that Mr Farage’s domino argument has merit. We are the 2nd largest contributor to the EU. Brexit could be a fatal strike.
Re points – absolutely. Why not? I haven’t heard a counter argument other than the usual shutting down of debate screaming “racist”. We are mixing immigration arguments with asylum. The more you see how the referendum debate is being conducted you more you see how the dumbed down and propagandised electorate are unable to discern self evident truth from fantasy.
5:38pm R4 Can the pro EU bias from the bBC get any worse?
5:00pm R4 Main news item some pedo given multiple life sentences.
While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentence I couldn’t help noticing their multiple mentions of ‘Christian’ and ‘churches’
Why then when there was decades of horrific pedophile attacks throughout this country and even within BBC premises, all with the BBC’s knowledge, was there never, ever, a single mention of Islam, Muslim or mosques.
Good point. The paedo should have been called “a man of European heritage” if the BBC was playing fair (only joking of course, as if they ever play fair!).
I noted that too Mr Rebel!
Utterly appalling to hear one Angus Crawford banging on for fifteen minutes or more about how British plod got the BBCs ire for “not doing enough, not invading churches, not digging up the dead and all”.
Let me guess-the BBC have a spechul coming up about this one, and Angus needs some self-righteous, avenging angel footage.
The police spokesman did well not to nut him-self-righteous twat that the BBC hack was.
Yep-Sunday schools in Malaysia, paedo porn on his smartphone.
Now how the hell you manage Christian as many times in a brief piece that far exceeded the word Islam in the previous half hour of why Muslims are bombing Belgium and France(Ernie Raes Allah compliant but God awful Beyond Belief)-well that`s beyond me.
AS someone said-this Hucklebugger will be a Muslim soon enough…raping of non-Muslim kids tends to get a few more falafels inside I`d imagine.
What I don’t get is why the leavers have let Labour off the hook.
Labour’s reason for staying in is worker’s rights. They say that if we left the evil Tories will star to degrade them. Well I am sorry to rain on their parade but that is democracy. We elect a government and that government should be able to pass anything in their manifesto. Fuck what Brussels says.
“… the price of butter quadrupled by 1978”
Interesting article about the 1975 referendum on the BBC.
Looks like dodgy Dave is pulling a fast one by claiming the cost of shopping will rise if we leave the EU, apparently it’s exactly the other way around: EU tariffs and subsidies push prices up, not down.
Now why can’t the BBC confront him with this fact the next time he makes this ridiculous claim?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246
Was out at the local Wetherspoons pub last night.
They have an EU debate website nested in their usual one.
Excellent-a joy to see Tim Martin when he`s not getting rushed and badgered for a soundbite-he devastates Stephen Sackur on his putrid “Hardtalk”, and points out his tactics, his bias and his thick reflex shinning up Heseltines fetid fibia.
Great display from our Tim. great website as well-gives both sides too, but the LEAVE bunch are inevitably more open minded , and more inclined to give us both sides than the fetid, the one-sided the terrified BBC.
Sackur shown for the thickfuk he is-wish I`d seen it at the time…but will raise a beer or two to Tim in one of his fine pubs at the weekend.
Not on the BBC: Sussex Police conceded that all of the “arrests were made from within the anti-fascist group”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/07/police-condemn-intolerant-anti-fascists-breitbart-expose-cover/
The BBC has thus far failed to amend its article, even after Breitbart London contacted their journalists responsible as well as being assured their sub editors were aware of the poor reporting.
What a shock.
Blatantly Biased Corp at its finest™
Mike,
The BBC will just bury it now leaving the wrong impression with many people. Disgraceful but typical of what we have come to expect from that shoddy, worthless organisation.
Masterclass from Nigel Farage as he took Jeremy Vine apart this lunchtime.
Now Nigel is getting more patronising of the feather bedded empty headed elite that dare to speak for us, as “interviewers”.
Vine is a cabbage-and not a very well-educated one either, reduced to Fabian Society polls and personal smears-texted in of course, because the BBC wouldn`t pass on such abuse and ignorant drive by paintballlings.
Nige could not have spoken more slowly for Vine and his highlighting researchers team-screaming into each others headphones and melting down live on their fetid twitter accounts.
God knows how Nigel resists the chance to stick one on thick Jezzas chops…Tim Vine seems a far more rounded and intelligent prospect.
OK Laura duckie, so you want to be a big shot in the BBC despite having no skills and by all accounts you are rather thick. However, you’ve got nice legs and we could use another token woman. Could you just show one of your tits and you get the job’.
Anyone who might think my comment was a tad sexist might look at the photograph promoting this incompetent member of the BBC staff.
GWF,
I assume you were joking when you said she has ” nice legs “. If not, well whatever rings your bell !
Chas & Dave song time, Grant?
LOL !
Song still sounds good with a Glasgow accent; doesn’t have to be a Cockney one – just the rhyming! Billy Connolly should do.
Grant, Yes, it was part of the joke. Obviously someone had asked her to show her legs, and probably complimented the foolish woman. I found the idea amusing that a mediocre presenter should present herself as a glamour girl
GWF,
That is a great relief . I was beginning to doubt your taste. You are quite right . The fact that she went along with it says everything. EG. If someone asked me to wear a suit, adopt a macho stance with my legs apart and stand in front of a German made car, I would tell them to bugger off ! It shows how superficial journalism and politics has become.
@GWF
Here’s a great pair of tits:
And another great pair of tits:
I’m still pursuing a BBC complaint regarding the Remain campaign adverts on the bb.com (international) website. They’re sticking to their ‘third party mistake’ line, but I’m pushing for them to follow their own guidelines and provide Leave with the opportunity to place adverts on their site for the same period of time.