On form again …

Stephen Pollard takes issue with a Michael Buchanan piece – which has since been stealth-edited.

As for the idea that, All the Danes can do now is hope the repeated apologies for the offence caused, by both the government and the newspaper, will end this unseemly row, has a sentence more indicative of the BBC world view ever been written? Take a running jump, Mr Buchanan. So much for the BBC as a stout defender of free speech.

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221 Responses to On form again …

  1. mick in the uk says:

    During the Simon Mayo show (5 live) today, was a news report from Palestine with a Hamas spokesman ranting in Arabic.

    The translation (from memory, because it won’t be aired again) was ..”Unless we get an apology from Denmark, we will bomb the EU building and all the churches etc…”

    Religion of peace?

    We have to tolerate Islam, but it is always one sided.

       0 likes

  2. DFH says:

    On topic (for once). Stealth-edit is right – they didn’t change the update time.

       1 likes

  3. Rick says:

    I get tired of these uppity loons thrashing about in a mess of their own making – time to cut off all funding and let them eat themselves. It is time we started showing just how hard life can be – Europeans face loss of pensions, loss of jobs, privatisation of medical care and education – and a group of spongers in the Palestinian zones want more money to feather their own nests –

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  4. Geoff says:

    Now that this has become an issue of such importance, why hasn’t the bbc shown some solidarity with the rest of the european media. It was all for freedom of speech and expression when it broadcast the Jerry Springer Opera. If the bbc do not come out and support the Danish, Norwegian, French, German, and Spanish press, then its credibility is finished.

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  5. ed says:

    Completely annoying: I wrote a long post about this last night, and put it as a draft because I had a few links to add. The Buchanan article was virtually an opinion piece! NO need for stealth editing at all. Not that stealth editing’s EVER right (spellings perhaps excepted). I was interested the other day to see Paul Reynolds on his own opinion piece put a clear UPDATE sign beside an alteration.

    Two cheers for Paul. Boos and hisses only for the Beeb.

       1 likes

  6. archduke says:

    well, its looking as if the Islamists dont want the EU building to reopen in Gaza.

    self-destruct button is ready and primed in Gaza.

    hast Orla Goering gotten the hell out of there recently? no wonder.

       1 likes

  7. Otis says:

    This is weird. Any other time I would be more than happy to see an EU building forced to close, but now…

       1 likes

  8. archduke says:

    Danish PM has appeared on Arabic tv appealing for calm:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4675462.stm

    just wondering – all you B-BBC posters. whats the general reaction to this “cartoon rage” thing amongst your friends, workmates, family etc?

    with the folks i know, its ranges from bemusement to outright anti-islam hatred. is this cartoon issue a trigger for something bigger going on? like iran? in terms of – because the muslim world has reacted, its softened us up to the idea of an attack on iran maybe?

    just thinking out loud here.

       1 likes

  9. archduke says:

    “just thinking out loud here”

    by that i mean – lets join the dots.

    the saudis kicked it off.

    and the saudis arent exactly close friends of the iranians.

    just a thought.

       1 likes

  10. Lurker says:

    In spite of everything Nick Griffen is getting a retrial. Is the Islamic world conspiring to help get him accquited (again) or are they doing it just to ridcule the British justice system.

       1 likes

  11. Lurker says:

    Or even Griffin.
    And ridicule.

       1 likes

  12. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    “just wondering – all you B-BBC posters. whats the general reaction to this “cartoon rage” thing amongst your friends, workmates, family etc?”

    None at all, because nobody I know has mentioned it. It’s one of those things you’d be mad to talk about to your friends, because they would think you were a racist.

    I am too young to remember the Salman Rushdie fatwah; or rather, I was aware of it, but I had no idea what was going on other than that the unambiguously villainous Iranian regime had decided to issue a death threat to a man with a beard because of a book he had written. I had no idea what was in the book because the news did not reproduce it or summarise it and indeed the news does not do so today. In fact I had no idea if it was a novel or a fact-based book. As a child I thought little of the threat because I knew that Iran was far away.

    I was impressed that Reporters Without Borders had stood up for the Danish press and that the BBC had covered this, at least on their website. Generally when this kind of controversy comes up the source is tarnished to a degree, but from what I have seen of these cartoons it is very hard to imagine them as the ravings of a right-wing lunatic.

    I wonder who will break first. I envisage the editors of the Danish newspaper being pressured to resign, and doing so, and the Danish PM making a statement and that will be the end of the issue.

    There is a Q&A here that tries to explain the issue:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4674864.stm

    It does not explain the only thing I want explained. How can “because Mohammed says so” be an acceptable answer for anything?

    It is now 2006, the 21st century, several decades after men walked on the moon and a time when computers are all over the place. I own a microwave oven and I have been on the Docklands Light Railway. This is the modern world. There has to be a reason otherwise it is just arbitrary.

       1 likes

  13. Peregrine says:

    Ok just to stir things up a bit, but why should the BBC show the cartoons?

    Why should they deliberately annoy a section of the population for no other reason than satisfying the curiosity of the general populace?

    Did the newspapers print the full Jerry Springer opera libreto in sympathy for freedom of speech? Of course not.

       1 likes

  14. Rob says:

    I remember commenting on Buchanan’s piece at the time. I thought the sentence Mr Pollard highlighted was one of the most ludicrous and mendacious pieces of ‘journalism’ I have seen on the BBC site, and it has ferocious competition there.

       1 likes

  15. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    “As a child I thought little of the threat (to Salman Rushdie) because I knew that Iran was far away.”

    A furthermore (a) I knew that I was not Salman Rushdie, and thus I was not threatened and (b) my natural instinct was to taunt the people who had ordered the fatwah and wind them up and make them angry. Some people react to a threat by cowering. I do not agree with that, because people who issue threats enjoy having power over other people, and I hate the thought of someone else having fun at my expense.

    The impression I get is that the people who are holding armed rallies against the Danish cartoonists are doing so because they love the thought of kicking in the teeth of some weak-willed Westerners who they despise for being weak.

       1 likes

  16. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    “Ok just to stir things up a bit, but why should the BBC show the cartoons?”

    I believe that at the very least the BBC should show the cartoons they comment on. Many of the reports mention a cartoon that shows Mohammed wearing a bomb on his head and another cartoon that shows him thinking about virgins in heaven – something I have in common with Mohammed, because sometimes when I dream I dream about virgins in heaven, although that is a private matter. Sometimes I dream that I am a falling. But I digress.

    But do the cartoons show this? How can I trust a report which gives me sceond-hand information when the first-hand information is available? At the very least the BBC should illustrate its description of a cartoon with the cartoon itself.

       1 likes

  17. archduke says:

    here are the cartoons , in case there’s anyone who has stumbled into this thread via google…

    http://i1.tinypic.com/mt5zpt.jpg

       1 likes

  18. mick in the uk says:

    The leaders of the BBC are too scared to show the cartoons because they are afraid of death.

    From a UK based Muslim website today…

    “The insulting of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) is something that the Muslims cannot and will not tolerate and the punishment in Islam for the one who does so is death.”

    Let’s not forget Van Gough (the film-maker, not the artist).

       1 likes

  19. Henry says:

    It is not decided yet whether Nick and Mark will face a retrial. The BBC biasly put the false imformation out that they were, to help downplay the acquital, save face and lesson the celebrations.

       1 likes

  20. TAoL says:

    ‘”The insulting of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) is something that the Muslims cannot and will not tolerate and the punishment in Islam for the one who does so is death.”‘

    I do wish they wouldn’t sit on the fence.

    Oh the tragic irony of it all. Isn’t it odd that a central theme of the cartoons – that so much fear, repression and violence are brought in the name of the Prophet Mohammed – has been proved to be chillingly accurate?

    I suppose you’re average Saudi imam or gun-toting Hamas thug doesn’t do irony.

    I am not sure that the BBC does either.

       1 likes

  21. TAoL says:

    Erratum: “you’re average Saudi” should be “your average Saudi”.

    if he were dead, Mr Smith, my English teacher, would be spinning in his grave.

       1 likes

  22. TAoL says:

    Erratum: “if he were dead” should be “If he were dead”.

       1 likes

  23. Hello says:

    “Looking For Comedy In The Muslim World” Such a sentence has never seemed so prescient.

       1 likes

  24. archduke says:

    OH FOR F**KS sake

    watched newsnight tonight – and even they wouldnt show the danish cartoons.

    instead they got an artist to draw bits of the cartoons…

    AAAARGGH!

    we’re talking about Newsnight – not the pleb 6 o clock news…

       1 likes

  25. archduke says:

    here are the cartoons.. again…

    http://i1.tinypic.com/mt5zpt.jpg

       0 likes

  26. Mr Smith (English teacher) says:

    Whirr whirrr whirrr.

       0 likes

  27. Socialism is Necrotizing says:

    When all else fails, bring in American Capitalists

    Merrill wins adviser role at Guardian
    By Robert Miller (Filed: 03/02/2006)

    Guardian Media Group, publisher of the loss-making Guardian and Observer newspapers, has appointed US investment bank Merrill Lynch to advise on strategic options. (Telegraph Group)

    As Mrs Thatcher said, “the facts of life do tend to be Conservative”

       0 likes

  28. Susan says:

    I’m laughing my ass off at the Beeb’s obvious discomfort over the cartoon jihad!

    After they puffed themselves up as the great, brave and noble defenders of free speech over the Jerry Springer Opera affair they really can’t bend over for Islam without being grotesquely revealed to the world as the double-standard-supporting repulsive hypocrites they truly are.

    Does anyone with a modicum of self-respect still work at the Beeb? If so, why would you work for these double-dealing, lying hypocrites?

       0 likes

  29. Susan says:

    SiN: They should sell off to a print subsidiary of al-Jazeera. Might as well get paid in big oil bucks for doing what they largely do anyways for peanuts.

       0 likes

  30. Stiddle says:

    The cartoonist drawing parts of the offending cartoons on Newsnight was perhaps the most arse-clenchingly gutless, spineless thing I have ever seen in a news report. Why didn’t they do the same with Jerry Springer; “we have an actor here re-inacting an innoffensive bit of the opera”. Farcical.

    Why not show the cartoons?

    The British press has been despicable, not a single one of them has the balls to take a stand on behalf of free speech.

       0 likes

  31. Bob says:

    Currently the BBC online piece on the cartoons has the hilariously entitled box “Muslim concerns over art”. Strangely, it is a list not of “concerns”, but of psychotic and (literally) murderous reactions to free speech

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  32. Epi-Me says:

    After not having had any report the previous evening, TF1 (French Tv) showed the cartoons last night in newspapers from around the world including one arabic looking newspaper,

    I Just checked Jihad watch, it looks like it was a Jordanian tabbloid http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010007.php#comments

    One of the interesting things about is that it seems the media is begining to discover a bit of perspective and solidarity with the ideals which they do not always trumpett sufficiently. Some of the accounts of the coverage on Newsnight have been very heartening esspecially as they also showed Robert Spencer, I mean really who would have thought.

    I would, in an ideal Frank Capra world, like ALL the newspapers in the west and ALL the broadcasters to show theses images on the same day as a signal to those who would try to intimaidate a free press that they can not do so. Yes I know there isn’t a chance in hell, but we seem to be getting closer than I could have imaguned a week ago when the story wasn’t really beeing covered at all on the MSM.

    Side issue, this story has been rumbling along since last year and has finally started to get the coverage it warrants. Has the story of the Iranian girl awaiting execution received any coverage yet because it is afterall of much more recent origins (even if it did break at the weekend)

       0 likes

  33. DFH says:

    I’ve done a bit of a round-up with a few screen-grabs if anyone’s interested.

       0 likes

  34. Epi-Me says:

    New this morning “Muslims in new cartoon protests ” the BBC’s summary of whats hot and whats not.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4675462.stm

    Also, Ive just been looking at the BBC’s “Q&A: Depicting the Prophet Muhammad”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4674864.stm

    Which contains this:

    “What does the Koran, the holy book of Islam, say on the issue?

    There is no specific, or explicit ban on images of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad – be they carved, painted or drawn.

    However, chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: “[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth… [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him.”

    This is taken by Muslims to mean that Allah cannot be captured in an image by human hand, such is his beauty and grandeur. To attempt such a thing is seen as an insult to Allah.

    The same is believed to apply to Muhammad. ”

    Now considering that Muslims say we shouldnt “idolise” anyone or anything but God, or “make partners” with him, it strikes me that they are by The BBC’s account doing exactly that.

    Do they not realise they shall all burn in hell and have their virgins denied them!

       0 likes

  35. Epi-Me says:

    One last post, From the have your say thread – 322 recomendations!

    Added: Thursday, 2 February, 2006, 19:52 GMT 19:52 UK
    Most people in the west know Islam by what we observe. We see killers fly planes into buildings, take over schools, blow up, behead and murder innocent people, including children. The killers commit these crimes under the authority of a religion – Islam. A cartoon shows Mohamed with a bomb in his turban. Muslims are mad at the wrong people. The killers are now the image of Islam. If the killers are not the true representatives of Islam, then Muslim furor should be directed at the killers.
    Chuck Green, Dallas, Texas, USA
    Recommended by 322 people
    Sign in to recommend comments.
    Complain about this comment.

       0 likes

  36. archduke says:

    DFH -> i will never buy another one of those newspapers ever again. utterly spineless, dishonest, and quite frankly disgusting.

    if ever there was an “hour of need” in the free speech debate it is now.

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  37. TAoL says:

    From the BBC Radio Five Live News message board.

    “Message 4 – posted by Five Live Hosts**, 1 Minute Ago

    Please don’t link directly to the cartoons. This is against our editorial policy, as the content is likely to cause offence and as a rule we don’t link to or show that type of material. We don’t need to see the cartoons in order to discuss them.

    Many thanks,

    Five Live Hosts”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfivelive/F2148564?thread=2167428&post=25017121#p25017121

       0 likes

  38. archduke says:

    interesting daily mail story on channel4/bbc showing the cartoons , fleetingly..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=375997&in_page_id=1770

    even though they were barely shown, the MAB is furious.

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  39. Rob says:

    The BBC take a break from using grieving families to plug their anti-war line and instead fall back on a “human-rights” lawyer:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4675724.stm

    This article is the second headline on their front page. A lawyer writes a book alleging something and the BBC considers it to be the second most important story of the day.

    Their main story, of course, was about “protests” (riots) by angry Muslims (bigoted mobs).

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  40. Umbongo says:

    Enlightening discussion on Today between a representative of the Muslim Council (I think • there are so many of these organisations I get confused) and a Mr Lee who brought us Jerry Springer • The Opera. Surprise surprise, the MC bloke was unbelievably offended by the cartoons while Mr Lee (who sounded eerily like Billy Bragg) understood Muslims being offended and said that the cartoons and any criticism of Islam are unacceptable unless you fully understand Islam. He also claimed that the most vociferous complainers about Jerry Springer • The Opera had never seen the show and that Christianity is fair game since there are Virgin Mary dolls on sale at the Vatican. Trust the BBC to give air time to opposing views.

    Shortly before this “discussion”, Today interviewed some Muslim nutters demonstrating outside the BBC studios. Can you imagine Today interviewing BNP demonstrators under any circumstances?

       0 likes

  41. Rob says:

    OT, I visited the Liberty website today, thinking that in a battle between free speech versus bigoted intolerance and hatred it would be clear where Liberty stood. Strangely, there is nothing on their website. Nothing at all.

    The most basic liberty, the freedom to say what you want, is under assault in the West and the premier self-styled organisation to protect Liberty has nothing to say. Surely Ms Chakrabarti, normally so garrulous, has SOMETHING to say over this?

    The only link I could find when searching for “Cartoons”, “Jyllands-Posten” or “Denmark” was this:

    http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/press/2005/international-criticism-of-uk-human-rights-r.shtml

    “International Criticism of UK Human Rights Record”

    Quelle surprise.

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  42. Mr Free Market says:

    Come on Rob, Liberty isnt there to protect freedom in any way – its there for liberals to slag off Western Govts.

    With regard to Miz Chakrabarti, the question isnt her politics, the real question is ‘hot or not?’

       0 likes

  43. Ian Barnes says:

    on this topic i must say i think this clearly highlights the problems with the muslim faith.

    They cannot take criticism. Whereas Christian groups are regularly subjected to mockery and ridicule. It is part of western society. Freedom of expression.

    OT
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=KYA1IOFGXPQL1QFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/03/neu03.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/03/ixportal.html

    Stupid question: does blair actually know what he’s doing?

    Actually, he probably does. Just thinking of ways to manipulate the situation on Europe again.

       0 likes

  44. archduke says:

    oh stop Mr Free Market. bit too early on a friday morning for that…

    oh ok so… hot.

    just heard on the radio that there’s going to be a global cartoon rage (some international allah scholar group is calling for it), since its Friday moon-god worship day.

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  45. egbert nobacon says:

    Forgive me if I’m not comprehending this correctly but, if it is written in the Koran that no image of allah or mohammed is allowed, how do they know the cartoons depict these people?

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  46. TAoL says:

    Oh, I see now. We should not discuss, criticise or satirise any aspects of Islam unless “we fully understand” it. We Infidels don’t get it: the mysticism of Islam is too complicated for us.

    “He also claimed that the most vociferous complainers about Jerry Springer • The Opera had never seen the show and that Christianity is fair game since there are Virgin Mary dolls on sale at the Vatican. Trust the BBC to give air time to opposing views.”

    And most Muslims have read The Satanic Verses?

    I despair. I really do.

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  47. archduke says:

    “Christianity is fair game since there are Virgin Mary dolls on sale at the Vatican.”

    err,excuse me? that chap obviously hasnt the slightest clue about Catholicism. the virgin mary “dolls” are actually what Catholics use to set up little home altars , usually with a dish of holy water and some candles. (my grandmother did it, so i know about this)

    anyways….
    the cartoons have made it onto flickr:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/cartoons/

    the scotsman reports that the spanish “El Pais” has carried the cartoons on the front page:
    http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=175752006

    and a newsflash on the radio (irish) – cruise ship has dissappeared off the radar in the red sea. no updates yet.

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  48. Ian Barnes says:

    If it is banned to show the cartoons in the UK.

    Then the BBC can stop immediately showing the Jerry Springer the Opera, plus any other religious plays/ comedies or theatre..despite protests by Christian groups the BBC gave the 2 fingered salute.?

    It stops now.

    We cannot have a situation whereby one religion is give preferential treatment over the over…that is called positive discrimination which appears to take place alot in the UK…except for the fact that Britain is a christian country, not Muslim. Fact.

    When the Saudis and others allow Churches to be built on their soil i may change my view. France applies that rule.

    But the Muslim religion is very narrow minded. Whereas mosques go up all over Britain, there is not one Christian church in the Saudi Arabia because its not allowed. Now who is discriminating here?

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  49. archduke says:

    bbc has a newsflash on the red sea cruise ship. no details yet. here’s hoping it’s just a technical hitch.

       0 likes