, I was looking forward to enjoying And it’s Goodnight from Him – a Tribute to Ronnie Barker when on came the BBC London regional news, with the local weather forecast. Near the end of the forecast, the presenter, Peter Cockroft, came trotting out with:
“…and if you’re observing Ramadan, sunrise is at… and sundown is at…”
Good grief Peter! What about those of us who’re observing encroaching dhimmitude in the UK?
I’m quite sure that Muslims, still very much a minority (even in London, 8.5%, nationally 2.7%), are quite capable of following Ramadan’s strictures without you shoving it down our throats on the weather forecast!
Tell us Peter, what’s the forecast for Britain as we know and love it with people like you busy proselytising (however well intended on your part) on behalf of a minority religion? Stick to the weather, there’s a good chap.
I suspect, sadly, that Mark Steyn’s forecast, Making a pig’s ear of defending democracy, will prove accurate unless more people take a stand against this sort of nonsense.
Sorry, OT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/05/bbc_domain/
Great use of the tax, losers.
Sally Magnusson, clearly a dyed in the wool member of the BBC family, is reporting from the Tory conference.
She interviews a former Big Brother contestant who is gay & black, but in Sally’s intro, the biggest horror is that he is a Tory.
She introduces a question to him by stating that he is well to the right of Clarke.
Good for this chap, he responds by putting silly Sally on the spot, he asks her how she has come to that view as he had never previously spoken to her. She advanced no reason for how she had framed her question.
Perhaps she just wanted to reinforce the BBC message that Clarke is leftish/centreist – surely only evidenced by his opposition to deposing Saddam & support of the EU – an odd definition of left & right?
Yet more softening-up from the BBC.
The Corporation is very fond of this tactic and is exceptionally good at it. It applies the Chinese water torture principle, drip, by drip, by drip.
Sooner or later this sort of nonsense becomes accepted wisdom in society and to question it marks one out as barking mad.
In a curious way this report squares the circle by applying to both stories – the relentless cringing to invading, arrogant Islam and the BBC’s coverage of the Tory Party Conference.
The constant repetition of mantras about ‘the need to modernise’ and ‘unelectable Right wing opinions’ becomes received opinion merely by constant repetition – as is being demonstrated by fool after fool on the conference platform. They’ve been told it so often that they even believe it themselves.
No doubt some future Conservative Party Conference will have mandatory prayer breaks.
I think that this is probably the first time I have disagreed with this site’s attacks on the BBC.
I can see nothing wrong with a weatherman letting 2.7% of the population know a fact which will influence their lives for the next month.
Whilst I realise that your opposition to this is based on the BBC’s seemingly overt support for the more extreme form of Islam and the strange way that it deals with Christianity, this is no reason to deny muslims a decent factual service.
And yes of course the BBC could try to provide a decent service to the remaining 97.3% of us.
OT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4305614.stm
Details of a review into the BBC’s coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been published by the broadcaster’s board of governors.
The review, announced in May, will look at BBC impartiality “with particular regard to accuracy, fairness, context, balance and bias, actual or perceived”.
The panel will also invite written submissions, call witnesses – which may include BBC staff – and consider licence-fee payers’ complaints.
Interesting.
Were there any reminders about the starting time for Rosh Hashana which happens to coincide with Ramadan this year? No. Why? Because the Jews will not try to topple British society by blowing up trains or overturning your grandparents’ tombstones.
Peregrine, sunrise and sunset times are possibly of interest to a wide range of people for a variety of reasons – I wouldn’t mind it if they were part of the regular weather forecast, in the same way that newspapers publish lighting up times.
What I find remarkable is the connection of this with religion – particularly with a religion that has many adherents who’d like to see all of us ‘submit’ to its strictures.
As it is, the BBC/Met Office are talking about dumbing down the weather, presumably to bring it down to the level of their touchy-feely style news bulletins.
Re dhimmitude:
This attack on the UK flag in conjunction with the attack on mere symbols of pigs got me to speculate about a probable future:
Muslims are offended by UK citizens eating pork.
The govt. rushes through legislation requiring that all farmers transport their pigs to centres where they will be slaughtered and incinerated, the ashes to be placed in sealed containers, shipped to an uninhabited island of undisclosed location and buried.
The farmers are then required to attend a three-year course in Islamic Studies at their own expense.
Sounds off the charts?
So does a lot of stuff that’s actually happening these days.
Andrew and Argo
I suppose that I have been “diversitised” and therefore do not consider the mention of another religion other than CofE to be a secret agenda to turn us all into bear-wearing misogynists.
The problem as I see it for a large number people on blogs is that any mention of Islam seems to set off a reaction sometimes out of all proportion to the context of the original statement. There are times when there is a genuine service reason to bring religion into a contemporary statement, and I believe that this case was one.
The farce of a secular society pandering to the supposed violation of dignity of a religious minority is another thing altogether. I do wonder, however, whether these actions were initiated by those who are meant to be offended or by some over-zealous diversity champion.
The BBC made sure they got this one in with regard to a report detailing the latest nation-building exercises by Palestinians:-
“A Palestinian witness quoted by Reuters said troops hit the woman several times with their weapons as she was on the ground.”
It was a bit of an over reaction by those Zionists, as she was only trying to stab them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4307438.stm
“She interviews a former Big Brother contestant who is gay & black, but in Sally’s intro, the biggest horror is that he is a Tory.”
Dan,
You appear to be implying that being gay or black is a horror. I hope not but thats what you imply thereby discrediting your otherwise probably well aimed shot at the egregious Miss Magnusson.
And which quote do the BBC use in the highlighted box? A statement from the IDF confirming that their soldiers are OK? Or a statement from Abbas regretting the attack? No, instead we have this:-
“The barriers of shame and disgrace set up by the Zionists shall face more blows”
This faked footage is apparently running on the BBC views 24 propaganda channel..
http://sirhumphreys.blogspot.com/2005/10/ap-and-reuters-photographer-bilal.html
Rob White
From your link – BBC BLEW £375,000 ON BBC.COM – http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/05/bbc_domain/
The BBC has defended its decision to blow $375,000 (£212,000) of public money on the bbc.com domain. The broadcaster – which is funded by a licence fee payable by every UK household with a TV – bought the domain back in 1999 from US firm Boston Business Computing but refused to say how much it had paid out. At the time estimates suggested that the BBC had shelled out between £20,000 and £200,000, although some even suggested it could have been as high as $30m. But following a request under the Freedom of Information Act the broadcaster has finally come clean.
So there you go, pony up the money or we’ll deprive you of your liberty. Ask us to justify our use of the money and we’ll only answer under the FOI Act. 1999 is the last time I gave in to the extortion. It’s the best decision I ever made.
JH
Your sensitivity over Dan’s anecdote is touching, but I didn’t read that into it. And now you come to mention it, anyone, black or white, that appears on Big Brother, attends political conferences,and allows himself to be interviewed by Sally M has a problem that needs clinical advice, rather than the support of B-BBC.
Its Ken Clarke all the way according to BBC radio this afternoon. Davis is a busted flush.
And the BBC think everyone loves the EU and is culturally sensitive too.
JH:
———————
“She interviews a former Big Brother contestant who is gay & black, but in
Sally’s intro, the biggest horror is that he is a Tory.”
Dan,
You appear to be implying that being gay or black is a horror. I hope not but thats what you imply thereby discrediting your otherwise probably well aimed shot at the egregious Miss Magnusson.
———————
Could it be – surely it’s within the bounds of possibility – than Dan was being ever so slightly ironic?
Kulibar Tree
Kulibar and Frank
The only point I sought to make with reagrd to Dan’d wording was that it suggested that black and gay were pejorative terms to those of us who read and sympathise with this blog. I don’t believe Dan or anybody else who posts here is anti black or anti gay but as far as the perceptions of the rentacrowd liberal left go, thats how it would be read.
I do take the point that Derek Laud’s newsworthiness to the BBC mindset is his belonging to two minorities and therefore worthy of respect for his sexuality and race rather than any piercing insight on affairs of state.
Details of a review into the BBC’s coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been published by the broadcaster’s board of governors.
Max, I read the report and homed in on this statement:
“The BBC has received criticism in the past for alleged bias in its coverage of the Middle East.”
Naturally they don’t mention which side they are ‘alleged’ to be biased against. I think it’s clear already what the distinguished panel will conclude:
Palestinians claim the BBC is biased against them.
Israelis claim the BBC is biased against them.
Therefore the BBC is unbiased.
QED
And no mention will be made of the fact that for the Palestinians bias means not accepting and publishing 100% of their misinformation and propaganda, while the Israelis have only ever required of the BBC that it be evenhanded in its reporting of the conflict.
Slighly OT, i am more concerned about this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4312516.stm
If as fully suspected the Iranians are behind this, then they are asking for trouble.
I am seriously concerned about this, and if Iran is playing an active role in either attacking or supplying weapons to kill British soldiers. Then that is considered a direct act against Britain.
I’d be hanging on to all those Scots regiments if i were the government, they may well be needed very shortly….
They may feel there is little to lose right now by making such accusations, given that diplomatic relations are already low following the breakdown of talks over Iran’s nuclear programme, says the BBC website’s world affairs correspondent, Paul Reynolds.
Is this the very same gentleman who sometimes pops in here to defend the BBC?
JH “You appear to be implying that being gay or black is a horror
No, what I was seeking to convey (unsuccessfully) were the words & tone of Ms Magnusson’s introduction of this Big Brother chap (I don’t know his name, I somehow missed the whole of Big B).
She pointed out that he was black & gay & added, with a strained voice, “a Tory”. I think it was she was seeking to imply that these attributes were not the best to gain support whilst on BB.
I have no problem with his, or anyone’s, race or sexual orientation & I am glad that most readers of my earlier post did not get that impression. Sorry JH if I shocked you.
Er
Apocalypse when??
There’s a thread on the BBC message boards which bears striking similarities to the original post. Was that someone on here or an incredible coincidence.
This bit: “quite capable of following Ramadan’s strictures without you shoving it down our throats on the weather forecast” is identical on each. I mainly ask because most of the posters on there really bug me and I often ponder if anyone on here goes on there too.
Hi Mike, the original post was all my own work, based on my own observation, posted around 12.20pm today. I don’t post anywhere else, least of all on a BBC message board. Either there’s been an amazing coincidence or someone’s done a spot of borrowing.
Can you post a URL for the thread please?
Yep
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfivelive/F2148564?thread=1152823
NB I think it is pretty clear who has copied who if that’s what has happened. Never would suggest it was you. 😉
A personal note to ‘Hal’ (following a small outbreak of comment spamming):
For the record, you remain banned from commenting here for the simple reason of being repeatedly rude and boorish in the face of a perfectly reasonable request.
If you care to apologise for your past behaviour/bad language and undertake to respect the requests of the Biased BBC team with regard to this comments facility then we’ll be happy to unban you once more.
While we’re at it, I’m not PJF, I’ve never posted as such, and I don’t know who PJF is.
As for the apparent absence of JohninLondon, no, that has nothing to do with me. Feel free to email him. Don’t be surprised if he ignores your rantings like everyone else you’ve emailed has though.
As for whether or not the cause against BBC bias needs me or not I’m happy to leave that to the judgement of the many people who follow Biased BBC. I make no claim to being perfect or being right – if you don’t like me or what I write don’t bother to read it.
In the meantime, please refrain from abusing the comments facility – it would be a shame for everyone else to lose it.
Adios amigo!
Apologies to everyone else for this interruption. 🙂
Thank you for the link Mike – lots of comments. I’ll read them later on.
Andrew
In all honesty I wouldn’t bother. The views on that board seem so totally polarised. Whatever the topic, there is noone in the middle. One thing I have learnt from reading the comments of those who disagree with me is that if you put your arguments in a level headed and well argued way, people (some of them) will listen and respond. Always healthy to hear others’ point of view.
Some of them however think you are the spawn of Satan for just thinking that perhaps the Iraq war is not such a bad thing or if you think that the Israelis are right and the Palestinians in the wrong. They are best ignored. If you do read it, brace yourself.
It is interesting to look at the kind of thing that the moderators stamp down on though. It’s bad news to badmouth Palestine, but you can be as offensive as you like defending the terrorists in Iraq. People on there seem to condone the killing of Iraqi children by the terrorists on the grounds that Blair and Bush did it first. Sickening.
Peregrine, your comments are thoughtful ones, especially your response to Andrew and Argo. But I don’t think you addressed Argo’s point, which was that Rosh Hashanah hasn’t been mentioned on a BBC weather report and is not likely to be. I take your point that people on blogs often respond forcefully to any mention of Islam, but I have a lot of sympathy with them. We have in the last four years (more or less) had horrific terrorist attacks on New York, Bali, Madrid, London and Bali again, all in the name of Islam. In the preceding decade there were major acts of terrorism, again Islamist, in New York and Kenya. Islamic fundamentalists have committed untold murders in Israel. I know, I *know*, that the majority of Muslims weren’t responsible for these atrocities. But when, in this context, the BBC chooses to single out Islam for special mention on its *weather reports*, for crying out loud… well, to me the corporation’s cringing bias is obvious.
If our country were a real democracy we and the bbc wouldn’t be worrying about the “sensitivities” of different sets of religious practitioners. All thosse systems would be illegal in the public sphere under separation of religion and state. But, wait for it, it would be perfectly free and acceptable to bow to any set of myths in PRIVATE. That’s what happens in many other countries, (US, France) Oh, what about the head of the Church, the monarch? Dump her for a true democratic house cleaning.
Ha ha ha!
Separation of church & state in the US? Grow up. Have you managed to ignore everything that’s happened in the US since 2000?
Fair to say that I have not answered Argo’s point and this is mainly because I know only a little about Jewish religious practices. I am aware that it involves lighting of candles at a certain time but can’t say that I was aware that this time was dependent on the time of sunset, whereas I was aware that the time of sunrise and sunset directly affects muslim lives during Ramadan. I should say that I have Jewish relatives and friends, most of whom are secular, so I am content that my lack of knowledge is more from a lack of prosetylising on the part of the Jewish faith than an oversensitivity to Islam.
So I am going to maintain my position that the provision of the times of sunrise and sunset are a useful service and it was right to give the reason for the provision of this information when it is not usually provided.
Can’t be any more unrepresentative than the stupid shipping forecast, often put on at prime time in the early evening on a major national radio station.
What percentage of the population is steering a ship or small boat off the coast at that time.
And how many captains of large tankers and floating aimlessly in the North Sea/Atlantic Ocean etc saying ‘I have no idea where we are. Need to tune in to BBC Radio 4 to find out the weather etc…’ Surely the large shipping companies have their own service for this need.
Let’s hope there’s good weather for Yom Kippur next week, no doubt the BBC will be falling over themselves to tell us all about it.
The BBC were also a bit patronising too, weren’t they? If you are following a religious rite which has a very strong emphasis on sunrise and sunset wouldn’t you find that out for yourselves?
Peregrine, I think you’re missing Argo’s point. The UK is becoming a “dhimmi” nation, catering to Muslim demands out of fear, not out of respect for religion.
Al, what’s happening in the US is the attempt to preserve the separation in the face of relgious fundamentalists who are acting like Islamo-fascists. As far as I can tell the ship of state hasn’t sprung any serious leaks. But what you should be asking yourself is, why don’t we and the bbc which is supposed to serve us,pose these kinds of self-examining questions here in the UK. Anytime anyone tries to seriously and reasonably discuss the monarchy or the Church, most of the population starts having conniptions. Here’s one for you. Just try asking how a minister can possibly also be an MP. Who takes care of Blair’s constituency? Has anyone been looking at the system? I challenge you to go down that road.
Observant Jews use sunset on Friday to mark the beginning of the Sabbath every week.
I guess they’ve managed to figure it out for the centuries they’ve lived in Britain without the BBC’s assistance!
Except for Bush’s dumb “Faith-based Initiative” to which I am viscerally opposed (it funnels government money to religious charities and is grossly unconstitutional), the US is far more secular — if secular means separation of church and state — than the UK or indeed most other European countries.
–We don’t have an established religion.
–We don’t have seats in the Senate set aside for religious leaders.
–We don’t allow government financing of “faith schools” or churches/mosques/temples. (Exception being the unconstitutional “Faith-based” charity initiative that I’ve already voiced opposition to.)
–We have a secular flag.
–We don’t allow religious instructions or prayers in our publicly financed schools. (Teaching about religions as a purely historical matter is allowed, though.)
–Church-and-state constitutional issues are fought as vigorously in our courts today as ever. (One of the latest rounds involved the ACLU successfully forcing the City of Los Angeles to remove a small cross from its City Seal.)
Europeans seem to think that “secular” means “not religious.” In the US it simply means separation of church and state, and it is accounted as working both ways, i.e. the church is supposed to stay out of the government’s business, but the government is also supposed to stay out of the church’s business.
Big Mouth
Sorry to bang on about this but what I am saying is that not every mention of Islam on the BBC is a sign of dhimmitude.
I agree with the majority view on this site that the BBC does handle Muslim affairs with a much less critical eye than it should. However, I also believe that this is the case with any society that is not Western. It is not that the BBC worldview loves Islam it is just that it hates Islam’s opponents.
BBC actually allows some coverage of the trauma of 7/7 survivors:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4255242.stm
Of course, it’s not a patch on their steady drip-drip-drip of “how terrible it is that someone pointed at a Muslim woman’s hijab on the street” propaganda, but nice to see anyways.
Peregrine,
it does seem a trivial point doesn’t it? Why get upset over a harmless comment about Ramadan on the weather report? Sorry to bash the drum on this one but people do see this as part of a process of pandering up to Islam. Devout Muslims will surely have the nous to get the sunset/sunrise times from their local mosque.
The farce of a secular society pandering to the supposed violation of dignity of a religious minority is another thing altogether. I do wonder, however, whether these actions were initiated by those who are meant to be offended or by some over-zealous diversity champion.
For the pig ban, it was somebody who claimed to be directly offended. For the flag ban, I suspect it was a diversity champion wishing to show their anti-racist credentials. I have to say that I don’t find any of this farcical – I’m having great difficulty in raising a laugh.
BTW Jews don’t like pigs either but nobody ever banned pig images on *our* behalf!
Peregrine,
Should the BBC, at overwhelmingly out of the non-muslim population’s pocket, really be promoting in any shape or form an ideology that openly enshrines discrimination against women and non-believers? That is supremacist in its core beliefs and officially advocates murder for anyone trying to leave it?
People are beginning to get a bit annoyed at the continued pretence by the BBC and others that Islam is “just another religion”. It is demonstratively not.
Dogs are actually more “haram” in Islam than pigs.
Nne wonders how long it will be before Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, Clifford and Snoopy are banned from council offices in Britain as well?
Alan
It is a farce (I tend to find most farce unfunny myself) and it is reversable. I am fully aware of the current thinking on “diversity” and the actions of the individuals who banned both the pigs and the flag are outside of that thinking. Similar complaints are made about banning conker fighting and other harmless activities because of a perceived risk. The HSE staff endlessly sigh at these stupidities.
It is all about over reaction to risk and sensitivity by public servants who have nothing better to do with their time and who are not questioned by the spineless elected officials that are meant to be controlling them.
However, this oversensitivity works both ways. Just because a weather forecaster mentions Islam does not mean that we are all being asked to convert to it.
I have some sympathy with the view that Islam is a religion whose time has long past. There seems to have been very little original theological thought since 1600 but I refuse to join in blanket condemnations of those who practice this religion, something that for the most part has been forced on them by an accident of birth.
There seems to have been very little original theological thought since 1600 but I refuse to join in blanket condemnations of those who practice this religion, something that for the most part has been forced on them by an accident of birth.
I agree with that Peregrine but I don’t see why we must ban criticism of Islam as the belief system/political system hybrid that it really is. It needs to be criticized, or else it will never reform.
Susan
I am not recommending banning any critism, indeed I believe that the BBC doesn’t do enough of it.
What I dislike is kneejerk reactions to any mention of Islam. Personal experience has led me to see that there is an arrogance in both secular and religious Muslims but also great love in those that have chosen the peaceful religious path, a love for all humanity that is shared by sectors of most other religions.
The ending of theological progression has perhaps left Islam in real trouble as it conflicts with the secular progress that enlightment has brought to the West.
a love for all humanity that is shared by sectors of most other religions.
Maybe on an abstract level, but how can anyone who believes in things like dhimmitude (Jim Crow law) and jihad against “infidels” have a love for all humanity?
Personal experience has taught me to be very wary of people who talk about their love for humanity while also believing in a “perfect system” for the whole world. Goes for Leftists as well as for Islam.
Susan
I am not really talking about Islam as a whole but individuals who find faith within it.
I have to admit that I have found better people who are self-declared Muslims than self-declared Socialists. Socialists seem to drawn way too much of their belief on hatred. It could well just be the case that those Muslims that I have met in whom I have seen a real joy would have found it within any religious belief.