The Left Establishment in League With The Devil They Know So Well

Harry’s Place explains it all:

Lone voices against Terror

 

…expanding on Nick Cohen’s piece in The Spectator:

British Asian feminists and their supporters had gathered to launch the Centre for Secular Space an organisation whose work I would say is close to essential. It is not fashionable, however, because its focus is the collusion between the Anglo-American left and the Islamist right, which has betrayed so many Muslims and ex-Muslims, most notably Muslim and ex-Muslim women.

The failure of Britain’s liberal establishment and white left to combat reactionary religion, or even call it by its real name, stuns them.

All emphasized how many in the British state and British left were racists hiding behind liberal masks.

This would be bad enough if we did not see from the far Left way into the liberal mainstream supposed progressives allying with clerical reactionaries and clerical fascists. They ignore the victims of theocracy and accept their oppression.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch look with horror on those who speak out about murder, mutilation and oppression if the murderers, mutilators and oppressors do not fit into their script. The Guardian, New Statesman and BBC turn away with embarrassed coughs. The police want to keep the natives of the East End quiet by cooperating with Islamic Forum Europe. Although Labour ministers, particularly Labour women ministers, tried to speak out against the double standards during the last government, the policy of the Labour establishment has been to do nothing to upset the ethnic block vote.

I hope you could hear a lot more in that vein. The trouble is that because the Centre for Secular Space argues against our shifty consensus it has no money. They need everything from computers to wages for secretaries. If you can help at all, even by giving them an old laptop, please contact them via the link here

 

 

The BBC is one of those who remain silent in the face of Islamic violence and threats.  Worse it often makes excuses for that violence.

 

One day, BBC,  they will come for you…and who will be there to speak out for you?

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64 Responses to The Left Establishment in League With The Devil They Know So Well

  1. Pounce says:

    It never fails to amaze me how the bBC goes out of its way to whitewash the tonsils of the followers of Mohamed;

    There’s the story about how a Muslim women found with over 800 stolen passports received a suspended sentence in Manchester.

    There’s the story of the welsh Muslim arrested for beating his wife and saying Allah allows him to do so.

    There the Manchester story of a family of Pakistani criminals in court.

    How about how the bBC remains silent on who have admitted to killing Gen Hassan Shateri in Syria. Instead they say the Jew did it.

    The left lost the plot years ago when it comes to the followers of Allah.

       67 likes

    • Beeboidal says:

      The Beeb says

      Most recently he [ General Hassan Shateri] was reported to have headed the Iranian Committee for the Reconstruction of Lebanon.

      According to a report in Lebanon’s Al-Safir newspaper, he was in Syria to study reconstruction plans for the northern city of Aleppo.

      What strange ways these Middle Easterners have. Perhaps they’re right. Perhaps if we need some inner-city regeneration done, we should get the leader of an elite fighting regiment to supervise it. What do you think, Beeb?

      But what’s this from the Obamessiah administration?

      Pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13224 – which is aimed at freezing the assets of terrorists and their supporters, thereby isolating them from the U.S. financial and commercial systems – Treasury today designated:

      The Iranian Committee for the Reconstruction of Lebanon (ICRL) and its director, Hessam Khoshnevis, for providing financial, material, and technological support to Hizballah;

      Hessam Khoshnevis is the late General Hassan Shateri’s alternative name. Both he and the organisation he headed
      are designated as terrorist enablers by the One.

      I expect to see BBC online articles suitably amended. The One will accept nothing less.

         11 likes

      • David Preiser (USA) says:

        It’s not in the daily White House press releases the BBC gets for marching orders, so they probably don’t even know about this.

           5 likes

  2. George R says:

    Walid Shoebat:-

    “Like the ‘race card’, the ‘Islamophobia’ card has long been maxed out, especially when one considers the agenda of many of those who play it – to overthrow the United States… from within.

    “These groups didn’t play the race card right away. They learned how to intimidate you into giving them victimized minority status and… Voila!”

    http://shoebat.com/2013/02/14/walid-shoebats-new-book-the-case-for-islamophobia/

       32 likes

  3. Dave s says:

    Nothing new about the perfidy of the left- by that I mean the so called ” workers friends” from the universities and the sycophantic media.
    They were just the same in the 1930s.
    Never can you trust them and never can you believe a word they say.
    They infest the BBC so no surprise there at the silence.
    Keep your children away lest they corrupt them and don’t ever attempt to argue with them. Turn your back on them. They are nothing.
    We are in a culture war and it is about time we understood this. At stake is our civilisation.

       50 likes

  4. wallygreeninker says:

    Harry’s place are part of the problem. At one point they were talking about banning the term ‘Islamic world’ because it makes Islam seem a monolith and that it is not is an article of faith with them: mustn’t essentialise Islam – there are many different sorts (and yet every member of the OIC is a toilet for much the same reasons) They constantly conjure up a host of moderate, peaceful Muslims who feel nothing but good will towards us. They have a poster called Habibi who posts on the latest hate preachers in town and what’s happening in Tower Hamlets politics but he just seems to represent the old Bengali religious groups opposed to the new jamat-islami types (I’ve seen both sorts – it’s the difference between pretty rotten and dangerously, sinisterly rotten). They almost did a victory dance at the time of the Breivik affair and are the eagerly demonised Spencer and Geller. Some white guy calling himself Abu Faris who hangs around the Sudan (for god’s sake) always seems to be on hand to smother anyone who attacks Muslim theology with his superior knowledge. At one point GeneT walked from the site of the proposed ‘victory mosque’ in New York to ground zero, with a stopwatch in his hand to prove it was nowhere near it. When it became clear they simply weren’t prepared to discuss street grooming I stopped visiting the site in disgust and have never gone back.

       18 likes

    • Pounce says:

      I think you will that Abu Faris has finally seen the light and left the Middle East and he now admits its a hell hole.

         15 likes

      • noggin says:

        middle east :-D – how about Rotdale
        “bbc s the planners”, has an oft repeated tale, of the wonderful rich tapestry of a community flower garden , Rot i mean Roch – dale …
        and no i don t mean another spate of child abductions/gang rapes either.

        no this time its railroading a ahem,”muslim community centre” the size of a place, that should have 115 parking spaces, has plans for 3, an absolute horror, obviously drawn up by a madrassa 3 year old, an absolute eyesore with no provisions, can you even imagine the safety/fire provisions …

        the recommendation was to replan, and drastically make provision for parking …

        but in this sh-thole that now has 17 mosques – just as with the towns in the west midlands, we have a muslim erm “community leaders” a muslim chair, muslim vice chair, muslim councillors – voila! deceitfully passed, doctored all the way, deliberately shoehorned in with no time, or concern, for glaring issues. just vote, kaffir eh!

        hmmm openly political, the head of planning shakes her head and states .., as hilariously, all her multitude of reservations, safety etc are tersely ignored
        … wait a minute … isn t this a so called “religion”?

        then all smiles, they all get together, (including the vice chair), and retire to back room … to celebrate their victory over the infidel ? …

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qrt24/The_Planners_Episode_3/

        50 mins

        at least the bbc showed it for what it was, obviously to help re educate the masses

           10 likes

    • noggin says:

      hole in one – no matter what sect, no matter what part
      of the globe, united in this, supremacist, anti kaffir, anti anti christian, anti jew and in the end anti each other,(when theres no one else left).
      different slices same pork chop, i use this analogy to provide reference and (i hope) offence … bum bum!.

         7 likes

  5. Reed says:

    It’s true that there is a general reluctance within the media, especially the BBC, to confront the misogyny and aggressive subjugation of females in the muslim world. It’s not that they are unwilling to cover this type of issue in itself, but they are very selective in the victims they choose to highlight based on the perpetrator. It’s much less politically troublesome to focus on the easier targets. If those religious fundamentalists, with multiple wives who are abused and oppressed, also happen to be white Americans then there is no ‘barrier to understanding’ in applying all manner of ‘value judgements’ in any coverage. Polygamy in other cultures is something to be understood and respected as part of the broad spectrum of diversity, and even to be recognised within our benefits system! On a much more shallow level, remember the fuss made over David Cameron’s off-the-cuff ‘calm down dear’ remark. An outward example of the subconscious, systemic misogyny and chauvinism that saturates our political establishment, apparently.

    On the more serious issues that the above group are trying to highlight…silence. It’s a case of right cause, wrong perpetrator.

       23 likes

  6. Jack Savage says:

    “One day. BBC, they will come for you….”

    Sod that! One day WE will come for you!

       26 likes

  7. thoughtful says:

    For a long time I’ve been thinking about & regining a ‘Heirarchy of ‘isms”
    Despite the fact that the illiberal left bleats on & on about ‘equality’ it hasn’t got the first intention of acting on it.
    And so at the top of that league table we have ‘racism’ (what ever that means this week) and within that at the very top are Pakistani Moslems, they are what I call ‘Liebours Brown Eyed Boys’ their favourites ahead of all others, if you are a Pakistani woman, or God forbid a Pakistani Christian then you’re well down the list. If you’re white then you probably aren’t even on it !
    Just to illustrate this a girl comming out from a left idoctrination lesson oops sorry a diversity & equality event said to her friend “homophobia? Well that’s like racism only not as bad!
    In some areas schools will not teach or allow any equality for gays because the Moslems object, and they’re top trumps.
    We know that the ‘isms’ and ‘phobias’ are nothing more than tools for the left to bully with, and they’re very effective tools, but just to prove this point what are the ‘isms or phobias’ for discrimination against Christians, or for those who are the targets of left wing bullying? Discrimination on the grounds of political belief is one of the human rights, so why no ‘ism’? Thats because the ones doing the discriminating are those on the left. Arthur Redfern was sacked from his job with Serco for being a BNP candidate, there is no law in the UK to protect him, he won his case at Europe. The UK now has to incorporate this into UK law but it seems incredibly reluctant to do so.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-20235101

    If these words actually meant anything, it would be reasonable to assume that there would be a strict set of laws and courts to enforce them, but like many other Liebour facades, figures from the Equal Ops Tribunals show success rates for most cases run at about 2%. This is a ridiculously low level but yet it’s never publicised. Settlements for those who do win are pitifully low.

    The problem is that agressive ‘liberals’ have made the workplace in certain organisation a hostile place for those who don’t completely agree with them, the consequences of being accused of a thought crime can be devastating, so ordinary people make sure they’re whiter than white (as the non PC saying goes), and so oppression takes over with nervous people each being as careful as they can, and the cumulative effect of this means that Liebours favourites are treated a whole lot better than they should be.

       27 likes

  8. chrisH says:

    A couple of sly little lefty liberal tropes over the last 24 hours.
    1.” The Report” last night gave us the story of blacklisted construction workers…of course the nasty bosses and right wingers got the stick, but the BBC had to address the facts that
    a) a lot of it happened on Labours watch….and up to 2009 too, despite them knowing of the blacklisting.
    b) certain unions-Eric Chappells etc used this well to rein in lefty power elsewhere at the TUC, and happily colluded in it…and Dave Prentis knew of it-but did nothing throughout, and neither did Derek Simpson.
    Oh dear-bloody bosses though eh?…didn`t even go to the funeral of the bloke who compiled the blacklist.
    Unions?…Labour?…no further questions , yer `onor!
    Now…”don`t go there!”…the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa lives on!

    2. Sombre tones from Jim Naughtie who gave up the end of Today, to tell us (in sombre tones) of the death of Ronald Dworkin-some Harvard/Oxford dribbler of big words in the cause of anything liberal.
    Same sex marriage?..abortion?..pornography?…you name it, Ron would spout off to Naughties supper party chums until the sun set over the coming mosques of Oxford…how fey, how charmant!
    But-no mention of his view of women colleagues, no worries about the fact that he hardly wrote…was just a liberal taxi for hire, who saw the USA and UK as two liliypads, worthy of his liberal hops in flip flops borrowed from Roy Jenkins or Andrew Young.
    I`ve taken my liberal syrup for the day Helen…can I get down from the high horse please?
    “W***ers…w***ers all”-as Morrissey should have sang.

       27 likes

    • thoughtful says:

      The reports was indeed interesting for its bias, especially when the presenter had to say “right wing organisation” I got the impression that she/he was going to have to wash their mouth out with soap & water.
      But by far the best part was the interview with the thick Labour MP who thought that legislation had been enacted to outlaw blacklists, and gave away their campaign funds to ‘worthy causes’ She didn’t even bother to check following the passage of the bill and only found out months after the event.
      The BBC should really have made more of her ineptitude, but of course they didn’t!

         20 likes

  9. George R says:

    “Jamie Glazov and Robert Spencer on the Leftist/Islamic alliance”

    (video.)

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/01/jamie-glazov-and-robert-spencer-on-the-leftistislamic-alliance.html

       9 likes

  10. AsISeeIt says:

    Nicky Campbell Tweets….

    Nicky Campbell ‏@NickyAACampbell

    BBC News – Lab chimps successfully treated with anti-depressants http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21299657

    No it’s not what you think! The BBC haven’t turned on Gordon Brown.

    After plenty of pro- fowy-woxy propaganda from the BBC this week our Nicky is concerned about the diddle-monkey-wonkeys.

       8 likes

    • David Preiser (USA) says:

      The chimp who tore the face and hands off that woman in Connecticut a few years ago was on anti-depressants. That worked out well.

         4 likes

  11. George R says:

    Comrade MASON, Beeboids’ political leader:*-

    For a fuller exposition of the Father of the Chapel Mason’s political commitment and activism, see his recent ‘Guardian’ piece, still using the phrase, ‘Arab Spring’(!); and including such classic phrases as: ” If we take 1848-51 as a template…”

    “From Arab Spring to global revolution”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/arab-spring-global-revolution?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Fmedia%2Frss+%28Media%29

    * Comrade Mason is currently believed to be still active in Greece with his chosen political party, SYRIZA.

    It is expected that his next report will inevitably include the words:
    ‘If we take the Spanish Civil War as a template, then Greece today…’

       10 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      Mr. Mason appears once a month to pen a Newsnight blog, anywhere but in the UK and on anything but Economics.
      I am beginning to think they have embraced my suggestion of yet another new post in Lord Hall Hall’s ‘new’, fresh team, and formalised Anger and Protests Editor for real.
      Meanwhile, at a muse… sorry North London mews near his abode…
      Comment is free (@commentisfree)
      13/02/2013 08:08
      Laurie Penny from Cairo: The courage of the vigilante feminists is contagious bit.ly/XzzYPt

      So… being a vigilante is OK now?
      Unique.

         9 likes

    • Doublethinker says:

      Couldn’t you let the Golden Dawn chaps know his whereabouts and they could have a nice face to face meeting. They could even invite JP and a few chums and make a night of it.

         0 likes

  12. Nick says:

    This si the delightful thing: the left are the bigoted racists. Right minded people really don’t care what colour, creed or whatever about you. They’re only bothered that you obey the law and don’t keep demanding special treatment.

    Equality comes through society and merit, not having the biggest gob.

       26 likes

    • mat says:

      Spot on Nick they also define everyone by disability religion and sexual preference never by the most defining thing of being a ‘human ‘ or ‘plague’ in BBC science speak !

         14 likes

  13. Guest Who says:

    ‘The Guardian, New Statesman and BBC turn away with embarrassed coughs
    There’s that ‘unique’ caveat inaction [I'll leave that typo] again on which powers get held to account.. and which best not.

       7 likes

  14. pounce says:

    Oh dear, black arm day at the beeb, Pakistani child killer gets his just rewards while serving time. hahahahahaha
    Subhan Anwar killed in Long Lartin Prison

    No doubt the bbC, will now promote a minute silence, look into remaking him as the victim. and vilifying those who despatched him to his god down under.

    Best news I’ve heard in age, i just hope he suffered.

       19 likes

    • Frank Words says:

      Time to uncork the Bristol Cream.

         9 likes

    • Ian Rushlow says:

      It is heartening news indeed that this vile child killer received his just rewards. Such a pity that we don’t have the death penalty in this country so that more of his kind can receive proper justice. It should be pointed out that there was no evidence at the trial that his religion played a part in his crime; the bottom line is that if 5% of the population are Muslim then 5% of such hideous crimes can be expected to be committed by Muslims. It is only when crimes are being committed in disproportionate numbers e.g. child rape gangs (“grooming” in BBC-speak) or religious/cultural motivations can reasonably be abscribed that right thinking people should be extra concerned.

         1 likes

    • Ian Hills says:

      Link page mentions -

      In January 2011, a social worker who failed to pass on vital information about Sanam’s abuse just one week before she was murdered was suspended…….for two years.

         1 likes

  15. pounce says:

    oh look the bBC has yet another article about how Islam is a victim, that it doesn’t respect woman and that all British non-muslims can only be racist bigots.
    Hip Hop Hijabis: The rapping duo challenging attitudes
    A musical duo from Bristol are making a film about their lives as converts to Islam called the Hip Hop Hijabis. Sukina Owen-Douglas and Tanya Muneera Williams met at a talent show, formed their partnership and converted to Islam in 2005 partly inspired by the autobiography of Malcolm X, despite some concerns about the position of Muslim women. The pair, known as Poetic Pilgrimage, said they hope they can go some way in challenging attitudes about Islam with their music but they are not trying to preach.

    I wonder if the bBC would cover their tour of the Middle East ,Iran, Afghanistan,Pakistan and finally Kashmir.

    Something tells me the tour would end after the first night. But hey why lets the truth hit you in the face when the bBC can promote this view that Islam is simply Missundaztood

       14 likes

    • pounce says:

      Bugger I must learn to proof read.
      Delete:
      that it doesn’t respect woman
      Insert:
      that it doe’s respect woman

      Yes, I am a Prat.

         4 likes

      • Mat says:

        Nay worry Pounce your a human and we all make mistakes in fact I think the only creatures on the planet that never makes any are the BBC staffers and acolytes who live in a unreality bubble separate from the rest of the planet!

           9 likes

  16. David Lamb says:

    I am awaiting BBC reports of the trial of the people arrested following the posting of the Muslim Patrols video on You Tube. Several people were arrested and their trial, and the arguments put forward by the defence, could be interesting. I have no idea when the trial will take place, but I am sure that after all the publicity given to these patrols further news would be worth publishing Perhaps we could have a re-run of the Tatchell/Warsi analysis of the patrols.

       14 likes

    • noggin says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21260383

      sick bags at the ready

         7 likes

      • noggin says:

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21263573

        better make that a carrier bag

           7 likes

        • Pounce says:

          Gosh,
          Talking about avoiding the question, (in PT case, the internal back support) she congratulates Islamic orgs for speaking out and he, blames Christians.
          If on the chance PT meets up with the said Muslim patrol . I am sure as he is on his knees getting battered around the ring to the sound of “Allah Akbar” he will be thinking about how Christians are far nastier.
          the bBC what a joke.

             11 likes

          • wallygreeninker says:

            The most recent story that an ‘islam homosexuality’ search throws up on the BBC website leaves the impression that Muslims are having a civilised discussion, with mixed reactions about homosexuality. The islamic attitude to homosexuality is riddled with hypocrisy anyway – I was once assured by a gay aquaintance that, from his experience, everyone east of Istanbul is bisexual.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20547335

            As for deliberately deflecting animus away from Islam and on to Christianity, Harry’s Place is a locus classicus for that kind of thing – if Jewish readers of the blog were reminded of the Spanish expulsion of the Jews in 1492 once, they were reminded dozens of times (with the Ottomans welcoming them in): Muslims, the myth it puts out, were friendly towards Jews until they picked up bad ant-semitic habits from Europe in the 20th century. Complete baloney (even if, rather oddly, Bernard Lewis, seems to believe it). Whenever the Andalusian ‘convivencia’ crops up on BBC documentaries the Beeb does its bit to promulgate that myth.

               6 likes

            • ltwf1964 says:

              THE best video anywhere with Tatchell in it-apologies it’s from the hated beeb but the commentary says it all!!

                 4 likes

              • Ian Hills says:

                I expect the Muscovites were aware of Tatchell’s liberal attitude towards paedophilia too,,,.which matches that of the moslem groomers who now infest Russian cities.

                   3 likes

  17. Alex Feltham says:

    And nowhere is this cynical deceit more disgustingly apparent than in the case of Emma West.

    The intimidation she’s been subjected to in the last 13 months is, quite frankly, evil.

    You can read the full details of her case in: “Two Racist Crimes” at:

    http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/#!/2013/02/two-racist-crimes.html

       9 likes

  18. Lefty says:

    With our Muslims comrades we will take over the world and have a Marxist world government.

       1 likes

    • stewart says:

      Hope that works out better for you than it has in the levant

         3 likes

      • ltwf1964 says:

        I notice lefty has omitted the second part of his name

        “trolling-wanker”

           2 likes

        • Lefty says:

          Come the revolution comrade me and my muslims comrades will take over this country.
          Then it will be another Iran.

             0 likes

          • Ian Hills says:

            Yup, thanks for helping out lefty. Now just put your head on this block….

               3 likes

          • Chop says:

            Worked for Hitler….well, until the rest of the world woke up, then he got his singular bollock rolled.

            Pity the Americans dropped the bomb on the opportunistic Japanese, instead of the “In bed with the 2nd Mohammad” Saudi Arabia.

               1 likes

  19. colditz says:

    Why does Alan read paranoid conspiracy into every story the BBC don’t follow? Alan has no knowledge or awareness on how a newsroom operates. Because no newsroom anywhere follows his EDL agenda then he,’s always going to see reds under the beds. I’d calm myself. Omission generally means of me news value to the wider publhc. The EDL hardly represent the wider public.

       1 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      Omission generally means of me news value to the wider publhc
      The value of any newsroom that inspires such as this in its acolytes is probably clear to most.
      Calm down, dear, this is only the end of a very long spiral down into self-parody.

         8 likes

    • chrisH says:

      Any thoughts on
      a) why mid-Staffs isn`t being mentioned any more then?…after 1200 people died, you`d have thought that there`d be a bit of mileage still in this atrocity?
      b) why the EU is able to drive a metric martyr to an early grave, but seems unable to prevent horse , donkey and god knows what else from getting into the food chain here?
      Either of these worthy of a BBC in-depth analysis…or will your kind be happy to see what pasties Cameron ate in Leeds a few years back.
      Majoring on minors…that`s all the BBC does-and you`re happy enough to want the same, as long as Hodge doesn`t get a mention from her Islington Childrens Home days.
      Savile did the same-which is why he personifies the BBC mindset. Be proud of him!

         10 likes

      • stewart says:

        “Because no newsroom anywhere follows his EDL agenda”
        The BBC follow the SWP agenda.Why else wouldthey give them some much air time? And that despite the fact their membership of art school anarchists has fallen to 3 men and a transgender dog

           6 likes

    • Chop says:

      Haven’t you got some horsemeat to drone on about Colditz?

         2 likes

  20. colditz says:

    Bugger predictive text. Of course should read of no news value…

       0 likes

    • Guest Who says:

      ‘should read of no news value’
      Got that right, bub.
      Guessing publhc was OK?
      The planet you report from… Klingon?

         3 likes

  21. Pounce says:

    Nazis prison guard wrote;

    Because no newsroom anywhere follows his EDL agenda

    Err care to point me in the direction of any post where Alan supports the EDL?

       8 likes

  22. chrisH says:

    Colditz may not have heard Any Questions tonight.
    Is it a stretch for his like to believe that-no, the EU is not mentioned in the latest food scandal involving horsemeat and the like?
    Yes, some comment by a Welsh Tory or what have you ( to be honest, don`t know who the hell he is) about gays not providing great homes to bring up children got a grand old airing.
    I baled out as I`m doing these days.
    If the following questions were not about Poundland, the Pope being mean with condoms etc…then do tell.
    Better still-do tell me if Purnell getting a BBC berth, Boaden getting a leg up much as her mate Jimmy Savile( of Blue Paedo fame) got his leg over…or why the heck anybody lets the BBC into our pockets…merited a question for the panel?
    What say you colditz?…

       5 likes

  23. Lefty says:

    Why does everyone on this site blame Islam for everything?
    The paperperson was late delivering my Guardian to my Islington mansion today, is that the Muslims fault?

       2 likes

    • Demon says:

      Why don’t the BBC blame Islam for anything? All Asians or “Men from Rochdale” are their choice of descriptions for paedophiles doing what they perceive to be Allah’s work. They even try to portray the Muslims as the victims of the Crusades rather than the agressors, just as they do with Israel.

         5 likes

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