Well, Cameron has made his big speech on the UK’s future relationship with the EU. I have provided my one line summary here. Wonder what you make of the BBC coverage of it? I thought Today was loaded with those who either oppose the IDEA of any change with the EU (Mandelson) or those who are raining praise on Cameron’s alleged “toughness (Bernard Jenkins) Not that much space for those who hold the view that this is just contrived spin and cynical triangulation aimed at warding off UKIP.
THAT CAMERON SPEECH!
Bookmark the permalink.
Of course the get out clause in Cameron’s speech was this one:
‘The next Conservative Manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative Government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next Parliament. And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice to stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether. It will be an in-out referendum.’
What happens if Britain is unable to negotiate a new settlement? Do we get a referendum if the status quo does not change? Somehow I think the answer will be NO. The reason, the British electorate would vote to leave the EU in a referendum and that is why we will never be given the opportunity to so vote… Here
Correct. This is what I have been posting elsewhere. There are too many ifs and buts: in the manifesto, Conservatives reelected, Cameron PM, renegotiated settlement (new EU? some hope!)…only then will hoi polloi get a referendum? As DV says on his blog “never jam today”
yep! agreed more of the usual, round robin, “further down the road/sands of time” horsesh-t
from the soundbite PM.
more relevant, more important, more pressing
what is he going to do, about the devastating, detrimental effect, the influx wave
of Romanians and Bulgarians will have, at a vital time
for our country?
And can you imagine that those Romanian migrants will vote “out” of the EU?
Would they have the vote? Who would and who wouldn’t? Is it feasible that as an EU referendum all EU living in UK would get vote?
The process, including eligibilty to vote, would require to be set out in a Referendum Bill which would be brought forward by whosoever is in government at that time.
It would OBVIOUSLY infringe their human rights To be denied suffrage.
Therefore, game set and match to them huh alba?
Actually, this line resonated more with me..
‘The media is full of it.’
This seems a better home for this…
BBC Radio 4 Today (@BBCr4today)
23/01/2013 08:59
Cameron #euspeech ‘spot-on’ – made clear the advantages of membership and that ‘change is essential’ says @andrealeadsom
I merely note:
a) The order BBC R4 saw fit to string out this quote, with what may seem a rather EU-supportive, BBC-approved sentiment stated….. by some bod tacked on at the end.
b) The BBC’s much vaunted ‘quote’ system seems to have gone quite selective in the process. I am not sure what was actually ‘said’ and what the BBC would like me to think was said or meant.
c) They seem to find a lot of space… when it suits
d) The person quoted’s twitter thread does not appear to contain this… where is it actually in print?
She must have said it somewhere else, which they’re attributing here. This sentiment doesn’t exactly match Ms. Leadsom’s position on the EU as stated on her website, but whatever. Politicians say all sorts of things depending on who they’re trying to please. Maybe somebody could drop her a line and ask.
She said it – or something like it – on Today this morning. I haven’t listened to it yet, because I’m fortifying myself first to listen to Kevin “Teabagger” Connolly explain that the Israeli election proves that half of Israel doesn’t want a permanent settlement with the Palestinians, as opposed to not believing the Palestinians actually want one considering inconvenient nuisances like the Hamas Charter and Fatah’s stated goal of a Judenrein Palestine.
Mandelson would lose his EU pension if he said anything against the EU. Many are now getting loads of money from the EU which would be stopped if they were against: that includes the BBC. Anyone who goes on the TV should declare an interest if their money depends on what they say.
And just his pension is about 4x the average wage.
Plus his MP’s pension.
Ex-BBC, ex-local government, ex-cabinet minister, ex-resigned-in-disgrace (twice), ex-EU Commissioner, and now living a very nice lifestyle without having to do bugger-all. All paid for by the taxpayer. Is he taking the pi55 out of us mugs, or what?
Bugger-All is the right word.
Doesn’t Clegg also have an EU pension or wil have one? Does that mean he has to support the interests of the EU in order to keep it?
It is my understanding that EU pensions are paid on the understanding that the EU can remove this pension, if in the view of the Commission or the Luxembourg Court, they “fail to uphold the interests of the European Communities”.
Here,
BBC-NUJ is firmly aligned with the Labour Party on its pro-UK membership of E.U stance .
By the way, why does BBC-NUJ treat the unelected Mandelson as a Labour Party spokesperson on E.U?
Where is the debate these days on the E.U in the Labour Party?
Are all Labour voters supportive of the undemocratic, federalising, E.U.?
Do they all support the Islamising push for the entry of 80 million Muslim Turks into E.U?
Cameron can go whistle. Everyone knows that he is a committed Europhile and has no intention whatsoever of addressing any of the issues critics of the EU have. He wants to keep the UK in the EU and will do everything he can to avoid ever facing the possibility of the UK leaving.
Eurosceptics in his own party know full well that Cameron is just playing games and hopes to kick this issue so far down the road as to be of no consequence at all. If UKIP can pull a good result out of the upcoming local and EU elections we can hopefully expect to see a few Conservatives ‘crossing the floor’ to join their ranks before the next national election.
Cameron’s speech is nothing more than a shallow delaying tactic and nobody – absolutely nobody – should be in any doubt that he is keen EU supporter and will never, ever make it possible for the UK to leave.
Vote UKIP and let’s be done with all these other charlatans and liars.
Quite agree. Vote UKIP. Get Labour!
Brilliant!
Or a Conservative-UKIP coalition. Now that would be hilarious.
I see it clearly now Colditz! You ARE a tory! That has been their scare tactic against UKIP for a long time. It’s beginning to sink into some folk that it’s worth dumping the useless tories anyhow!
North of the border UKIP are doing even worse than the Conservatives. They are so desperate that they have even included Community Council representatives on the website. Most Community Councils find it hard to get one man and his dog to stand for election never mind getting the masses to turn out and vote.
http://www.ukip.org/page/scotland-councillors
Interestingly they cannot even get the spelling of Kincardine correct (Bob McKinney, North Kincordine Rural Community Council)
Presumably Scotland is on course to become a Socialist Republic so will be irrelevant to this debate.
Although whether the EU is quite ready for a 1970s East Germany style member is yet to be seen.
If and when it becomes that socialist republic, I believe they will turf out of Faslane our nuclear subs.
Well in Wales we will welcome them with open arms. Welcome the employment opportunities.
This policy has been clearly stated by our first minister.
So go ahead Scots, rid yourselves of the jobs and the boost to the economy!
In response to a FOI request the MOD conceded that only 520 civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport near Helensburgh are directly dependent on Trident.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/labour-and-tories-under-fire-for-inflating-trident-job-losses.19262922
Rather than boosting the economy of the area the location of the base actually impedes marine sports, recreational and new industrial developments that could create far more local jobs than the base employs.
We’ll make our own judgements about that old chum! Ty for the advice.
You had better start digging a very deep harbour now chum!!
It’s already there !
The Today program cut into Cameron’s speech denying the listener the opportunity to hear exactly what he was saying in order to give Mandelson the air in order he could rubbish what he assumed Cameron might be going to say.
Amazing example of impartial reporting.
I didn’t listen to the BBC coverage of O’ Bama’s inauguration speech, but I’m sure they will have interrupted it to hear what George W. Bush had to say.
Cameron doesn’t say what changes he wants in the EU. What about FISH, for instance.
BBC-NUJ is not keen to publicise UKIP views on Cameron’s speech,
e.g ‘World At One’ more interested in views of Germans. Apparently for BBC-NUJ, the views of ordinary British people have the lowest priority.
“THE GENIE IS NOW OUT OF THE BOTTLE… FINALLY”
http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2924-the-genie-is-now-out-of-the-bottle-finally
Nonsense!
He was on Today today and the website!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21158173
Vote UKIP
Get Labour!
This is the first time I’ve heard a line by line simultaneous relay and comment of a speech on Today. (Yes I know budget speeches are subject to a similar process but changes in tax rates etc are immediately capable of explanatory analysis – deliberately ambiguous sentences aren’t.)
The BBC knows – we all know – that politcians’ speeches on policy are:
a. generally highly nuanced
b. designed to mean anything the listeners wish to hear and, particulary
c. create plausible deniability of any “cast-iron” commitment to specific action.
Accordingly, for analysis purposes the speech should be taken as a whole and not cherry-picked to death after, let alone during, delivery. Mind you, since this speech has been in the public domain for over a week, Robinson, Mandy et al have had more than sufficient time to work on their “instant” reaction. I wouldn’t be surprised if Naughtie and Mandy took the opportunity last weekend to rehearse this morning’s discussion over a civilised dinner (at the taxpayers’ expense?).
BTW since this is apparently a keynote speech in respect of the UK’s future sovereignty why wasn’t it delivered formally in the Commons rather than over breakfast in the City? AFAIAA this question was, significantly, not posed on Today. Why? Because the BBC recognises (and Cameron knows) that the Commons has allowed itself to be castrated and furthermore, as long as the Westminster gravy train remains on the rails, that’s fine with most of our “representatives”.
I’m still waiting for the much ”promised” referendum on the 2007 Lisbon Treaty.
Maybe if I vote Conservative again, they’ll deliver it after the 2050 election. Or am I just being naive ?
Strange how the BBC never re-visit Gordon’s snub to the British people (or was it just a downright lie?) and his sneaking in the back door to sign the treaty on his own after the main event. Slimeball.
I left the Today broadcast on while doing something else after listening to “Teabagger’s” segment from Israel, and heard the Beeboids cut away from Cameron’s speech and say they’d come back to it when he got the important bit about the referendum. Davis airily belittled it by saying Cameron himself likened the speech to tantric sex, with all the build-up before the big moment. I don’t think he really gets the concept, but never mind. Then Naughtie welcomed Mandelson in, introducing him as “someone who is…um…presumably not happy with the speech.” Oh, please.
Mandelson said he hadn’t seen the whole thing and had just skimmed through extracts. So he wasn’t really there to critique the speech and points therein at all, but to give voice to the general Pro-EU position. What a waste of time, and what a biased moment of cutting away from one party political broadcast to give air time to another.
If the EU has a current issue of legitimacy with the electors , particularly of England, then waffling about 2017 is not going to cut it.
The problem is now and Cameron needs to look reality in the face.
A meaningless speech .
Cameron and his so called modernisers are the problem .
Will BBC-NUJ pursue this?;-
“Ed Miliband opposes EU vote but party says just for ‘now’.
Labour’s policy on Europe was today thrown into confusion, after Ed Miliband declared he opposes an EU referendum only to be contradicted by his party hours later.”
By Rowena Mason.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9821587/Ed-Miliband-opposes-EU-vote-but-party-says-just-for-now.html
I thought that Miliband’s declaration was just as momentous as Cameron’s speech.
This backtracking by Labour (I wonder if Caroline Flint will now change her DP position yet again – she must be getting giddy) must be the reason that the BBC aren’t reporting Milipede’s emphatic objection to a referendum.
Of course if Cameron had come away from the HoC and had u-turned in such a short time, the BBC would have been all over the story…but as it’s Miliband, there’s nothing to report.
Hopefully this will stop Milliband and his bunch of cultural Marxists winning the next election.
Even a Tory Eton government is better than that.
More than two years to go before the general election. I would say Milibandwagon will change his position on a referendum two or three times before then. Douglas Alexander has already said this afternoon “never say never”…..
Good job we’ve got the BBC to hold him to account!
Er, hang on….
Who was that ex-Belgian P.M on Newsnight last night?
We need far more of this Guy von Hoogstraten or whatever his name is.
He thinks the problem is that Britain is not in the Euro, and has opted-out of things like Schengen and the Social Chapter…it`s all our fault again.
He wants a hyper federalist Euroregion that presumes to be like the USA…but Emily Maitlis wasn`t going to look into all this .
Guy indeed got both the first and the last word on the so-called “debate” on Newsnight…what were the chances of this gravy-training ex Belgian P.M..now Eurofanatical swivel-eyed Federalist for the E.U Superstate…getting both to top and tail the discussion?
The more we hear of Guy and his French le Milibandes…the more certain, we`ll be leaving the E.U.
More BBC…more!
This is what I think Dave is banking on. A few cosmetic concessions and our heroic leader, having won the election on the Euro vote (con) promise, can tell us everything in the European garden is now rosie. If we do actually get to vote all the big guns, right, left and centre will line up in unison to convince a gullible public that it would be a mistake to leave. Do you recall Harold Wilson pulling an identical scam back in the 70’s? There was an unholy alliance alongside Harold; Ted Heath, Roy Jenkins, David Steele, even Maggie!
And on the “out” side an eclectic bunch of mavericks; the late, great Enoch Powell, Tony Benn and Peter Shore.
Still, we do have one thing on our side. Tony Blair wants us to stay in …
worse = towards the end of his speech Cameron implied that if we found an “agreement” with Europe – we could then welcome even more countries to join..
That is – sell a fudge deal to the UK hoi polloi, then welcome Turkey into the fold.
“David Cameron remains in denial about Britain’s future in the EU”
By Nile Gardiner.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100199499/david-cameron-remains-in-denial-about-britains-future-in-the-eu/
The news at BBC had soundbites off Clegg, some ex-EU Ambassador and-of course-quotes from Miliband etc with the same crap.
Hollandes Miliband minimies over the Channel get fulsome quoting…surprisingly, Hollandes clueless lefties say pretty much what Britains clueless Labour lefties say…well, I`m blowed.
But one thing DID surprise me-Merckels moderated response earlier in the evening had been bumped for some German MP who disagreed with Cameron.
How often is Merckel trumped by a party nobody from Germany then?…well any time it seems to make Cameron “more isolated” “gambling” and “populist”…which is what the Labour loving BBC are all about…24/7.
Still-looking forward to the reasons why we needed an AV Referendum…but better not ask us all about becoming a Euroregion fit for Prescott and Mandelson to squat over!
The BBC are on it already..at our expense.
MATT cartoon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
on iain dales show last night on lbc,,the labour mp kate hoey said the bbc will have to get its act together with this bias in favour of the pro european camp who the bbc always seem to favour in this politacal debate about leaving the eu,thats very surprising coming from a labour mp accusiing the bbc of biased coverage.
Kate Hoey is a decent MP, one of only two on her side of the house. She is quite clearly a Euro-sceptic and is right to point out the bias of the BBC on this issue.
The chances of Cameron either wanting or being willing to offer a referendum are about 0.01%. Smoke and mirrors. I suggest abandoning the sinking ship and finding a country more amenable to your talents, god knows I wish I could but never was great at languages!
Easy prediction – watch the ramping up in the MSM from now on by the usual suspects, especially on the BBC, of these already well-worn mantras..
‘we’re being fed poison and lies by right-wing tabloid scaremongering, misinformation, jingoism, Little Englanderism, xenophobia, small mindedness, living in the past, scared of progress, bigoted, chauvinist blah blah and racist and blah…’
…and this is bad because…
‘people aren’t being informed of all the good things that EU membership has brought to the nation and they don’t know enough about the issues to make an informed choice so this really ought to be left to the experts because it’s too important a decision to be handed over to Rupert Murdoch and his all powerful ability to hijack democracy and blah blah and racist and blah…’
Secretly mass immigration adoring Mr Bean wouldn’t offer us the same ‘vote for us first’ deal? Of course he bloody well would – if he had the guts!
As long as Cameron stays in, there is now NO chance we won’t get that referendum that the great British public have for so long rightly democratically demanded!
Whatever yer own preference, Cameron, well done! Even if you were forced along by UKIP. Good!
£51 million A DAY saved here we come!
Don’t swallow any of the frightening utter crap and firmly stay conviction voters!
The truth about the EU ” project” can be found in a book called:
The Great Deception written by Christopher Booker and Richard North.
Not an easy read, but worth every minute spent reading it.
This sums it up:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/britain-to-decide-why-its-shit-2013012357092
BBC-NUJ subordinates itself to federalising E.U lackey, MANDELSON.
“Lord Mandelson upholds his ‘duty of loyalty’ to the EU on Radio 4”
By EPHRAIM HARDCASTLE.
[Excerpt]:-
“Labour’s former Euro Trade Commissioner Lord Mandelson was invited by the BBC to defend the EU for Radio 4 yesterday – just as David Cameron was giving a speech about renegotiating our membership. An indication of the BBC’s pro-EU tendency? Mandelson, 60 this year, collects an EU pension of £31,000 a year from the age of 65. It’s conditional on him maintaining a ‘duty of loyalty’ to the institution. Otherwise the pension could be cancelled. Shouldn’t listeners have been reminded of this by Today presenters Evan Davis and James Naughtie prior to Mandelson’s spiel? ”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2267316/Lord-Mandelson-upholds-duty-loyalty-EU-Radio-4.html
They should have introduced Mandelson by saying, “He hasn’t read the speech, but here he is anyway in his capacity as a former European Commissioner.” I know that the Today producers and defenders of the indefensible expect the average smart, suave Today listener to know his full background already, but Mandelson admitted himself during the segment that this is more or less what he was doing. But we never heard Naughtie rebut a point with – nor did Davis do his trademark chiming in afterwards – “Well, you would say that, wouldn’t you?”, like they do with people who are on the other side of the political spectrum.