HEALTH ALERT

A reader writes…

“Have a read of this politically correct article from the BBC touching on just some (understatement) of  the reasons (can you guess which factor of the equation they’ve left out?) why a south London NHS trust has gone into administration – just one of several in the UK over the last few weeks!  The BBC obviously feels that the topic of uncontrolled immigration is simply too sensitive to discuss whenever austerity, unemployment and crumbling public services are hauled in front of the MSM jury. Right, I’m off to pick up my prescription, the front label of which is interpreted into  languages!”

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80 Responses to HEALTH ALERT

  1. Fred Bloggs says:

    As confessed before, I watch parliament. Just at the end of the last gov, there was a small debate in the chamber. It concerned this NHS trust and contained the local MPs with one notable exception Rainsford (greenwich). One Tory MP said that the PFI would cost £800m over 30 years, whereas the straight cost was £100M. The problems with this trust has been going on for many many years.

       11 likes

  2. Wayne X says:

    Those who the Lord wishes to destroy he first sends mad.
    We, the British people, pay for a National Health Service and then give it away to non-nationals.
    If this is not madness then what is?

       53 likes

    • John Anderson says:

      “Quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius”

      You could alter it a bit to “those who wish to destroy themselves have to be crazy”

      The UK these days fits that description.

      But so does the BBC. If the “guardian of impartiality” was setting out to destroy its trust, it could not be doing a much better job./

         9 likes

  3. Prado says:

    Funnily enough (or not) I don’t see any mention at all about PFI or who was in charge in 2009 when the hospitals were merged. Can you imagine if it was a Tory gov? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18812193

       19 likes

    • John Anderson says:

      I thought PFI financing arranged under Labour was the prime cause of the collapse in this case ?

      Therefore of course there is no need to mention it !

         19 likes

      • Prado says:

        absolutely, but until the electorate is told and understands how much of their money is being spent without their approval then nothing will change! most people don’t understand PFI and the tories have just continued it.. sigh..

           12 likes

        • David Preiser (USA) says:

          Gordon Brown shifted PFI expenditure off the books, so the BBC won’t be mentioning that, either.

             17 likes

          • Nicked emus says:

            Gordon Brown shifted PFI expenditure off the books, so the BBC won’t be mentioning that

            The third major difficulty South London Healthcare has faced is that it is saddled with paying off two private finance schemes, which were used to build the hospitals in Orpington and Woolwich.

            This year alone £61m in charges and interest will have to be paid, nearly 15% of the trust’s turnover. And with the final payment not due until 2032, there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

            And the following sidebar

            PFI in the NHS
            Private finance initiatives are partnerships between private companies and public services
            The private company stumps up the finance for the public service – in this case, NHS hospitals
            PFI offers a way of funding major capital investments, without immediate recourse to the public purse
            The NHS then repays the private company under a system of annual fees

            and then in the related stories box

            Related Stories
            NHS ‘hospital loans’ questioned
            PFI poor value for money, say MPs

            Apart from that the story hardly mentions PFI at all.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18594046

               4 likes

            • David Preiser (USA) says:

              Nicked, your reading comprehension has failed you here. Did I say the BBC wouldn’t mention PFIs? No. I said they wouldn’t be mentioning that Mr. Brown shifted it off the books – i.e. not counted as part of the national debt. Obviously this allowed it to get out of control, too many relying on it too much. Now, just like all those people who had to pay off mortgages costing more money than their homes are worth (many of whom have lost their homes, gone bankrupt, etc.), the trust is burdened with debt it can’t pay. It’s too much debt, always was going to be, and it’s debt that was enabled by Gordon Brown.

              Mr. Brown’s responsibility for this eventuality is what the BBC won’t be mentioning. Nothing you’ve quoted does. Spot the Missing Former Chancellor.

                 31 likes

  4. Scott says:

    Oh no! News organisation reports facts, rather than pandering to the prejudices of someone who’s more interested in having their own bigotry justified!

    Shocking.

    If your “reader” has reason for saying that there are other causes, then maybe he could provide evidence?

       5 likes

    • Harold says:

      Have you tried reading the links above… especially the Migration Watch UK? Are you trying to deny that immigration is placing a huge burden on the NHS? The evidence is overwhelming Dez and this information is in the public domain… but nice try Scott!

         29 likes

    • Billy Boy says:

      Yes, at times the BBC does indeed report facts… just not all the facts!

         21 likes

    • Merlin says:

      OK Scott, can you provide us with evidence to the contrary of Migration Watch’s findings… that immigration is not placing the NHS under any stress? They are a non-political organization, incidentally, who have a good record of providing solid statistical data pointing to the strains of an overloaded and stretched public service infrastructure. Good luck!

         18 likes

      • Merlin says:

        Oops ignore the comment above… hadn’t finished it and I pressed ‘Post’ by accident. I’ve posted my finished version below.

           3 likes

    • Merlin says:

      OK Scott, can you provide us with evidence to the contrary of Migration Watch’s findings… can you confirm that immigration is not placing the NHS under any stress? Don’t be ridiculous Scott… this is common sense and has even been alluded to by politicians both from the Right and Left; the more unfettered a country’s immigration policies the more strain placed on public services. Migration Watch is a non-political organization, incidentally, who have a good record of providing solid statistical data pointing to the strains of an overloaded and stretched public service infrastructure; they are a reliable source for data indicators and have, funnily enough, been used by the BBC from time to time.

         25 likes

      • Nicked emus says:

        THere are two separate issues that need to be kept separate: the reasons for why this particular S London NHS trust has gone into administration, and the more general strain put on the NHS by immigration.
        As the article makes clear hospital funding is driven by patient numbers; the more people it sees, the more money it gets. So for a particular hospital whether the patients it sees are immigrants or not is immaterial. In fact arguably it is the hospital’s (but not the NHS’s) interest to see as many illegal immigrants as possible.

        As the story makes clear it is PFI that was the contributory factor in this particular case. The claim that the BBC is being politically correct in not mentioning immigration does not hold up.

        There is a more general point about NHS budgets as a whole and whether or not they are seriously adversely affected by illegal immigration.

        As the Migration Watch post admits it has no actual data on this “potentially hugely expensive access”. The best it comes up with is “the NHS risks…”.

        It tosses in some big numbers “Over one and a half million such visas were issued last year” but does not complete the loop establishing how many of those 1.5m abused the system. It could by all of them, it could be none of them. We simply don’t know.

        I could argue that the strain on the NHS has been caused by excess treatment of unicorns and pixies; I have as much hard data as Migration Watch.

           1 likes

        • Merlin says:

          I take your points but remember, the above article accepted that these were all contributory factors… no one is disputing this Nicked Emus. However, the BBC, as always, left out a significant factor… Immigration. You are, in my opinion, mistaken in your line of reasoning concerning the separation of general stresses and localized pressures to do with immigration; NHS local budgets are determined from national data and allocation predicated on per capita growth forecasts with the corresponding effects on local public infrastructures also taken into account – you simply cannot disentangle immigration from the equation of NHS trust funding models: it’s nonsense! In London and up here in Scotland, immigration has unfortunately outstripped resources causing certain trusts (both up here and down south) to face unfeasible administration costs in relation to financial resources- yes funding is short with public health allocation having always been a difficult balance to strike with both public and private funding initiatives, BUT the almost exponential growth in babies born to eastern European babies (up 16% in East Renfrewshire alone!) is placing massive stresses on frontline services.
          Interestingly, for one trust in London to have over 1 million patients is in itself a remarkable figure – and remember this trust was an amalgam of three separate trusts with merger still failing to translate into a viable cost effective care plan; PFI and acute service costs are, indeed, a significant factor but to ignore immigration or to try and separate the national from the local doesn’t add up… in my humble opinion. But some good points.

             17 likes

        • Merlin says:

          Nicked Emus, if demand outstrips capacity then any service will buckle; now if we were discussing a rural trust, say the Western Isles or Devon, then, yes… immigration wouldn’t play much of a factor… but London has seen a huge influx which in addition to funding difficulties, places unsustainable burdens on health services.

             14 likes

          • Leftie-Loather says:

            Merlin, you obviously haven’t been to Devon for a while…..Places like Plymouth and Exeter are also rather different these days!

               10 likes

            • Merlin says:

              I miss Devon actually… went to Exeter University in the late 70s… great place it was too. Beautiful looking birds, great real ale and loved watching Argyle beat Exeter on a regular basis!

                 6 likes

            • ROBERT BROWN says:

              Too true. I took a trip to Portsmouth some time ago, visit the Mary Rose, Victory etc….and rewarding it was too. Strolling on the front, i became aware of the sheer number of immigrants roaming around, some begging, some sat in groups drinking. Then i saw about six of them kicking a ball against the wall with the Navy’s war dead inscribed and that made me mad. I remonstrated with them, and to their credit, stopped doing it and apologized for it. Meanwhile, two of Britains ‘finest’, coppers, were watching from a distance, and as i strode over to them to ask why they had not intervened, they turned tail in a hurry, muttering into their radios. The future of Britain people, get used to it.

                 14 likes

        • Barry says:

          “hospital funding is driven by patient numbers; the more people it sees, the more money it gets. So for a particular hospital whether the patients it sees are immigrants or not is immaterial.”

          Provided the extra money results in an improvement in facilities in proportion to the additional patients it has to take on. Not sure it does though, that’s the problem.

             2 likes

        • LondonCalling says:

          … hospital funding is driven by patient numbers; the more people it sees, the more money it gets. So for a particular hospital whether the patients it sees are immigrants or not is immaterial….

          wrong, wrong, half right, wrong.

          South London Healthcare Trust is still running on “block contracts”, because the PCT can not afford the number of patients being treated under Payment by Results Tarrif.The PCT says “we have given you all the money we have, there isn’t any more, live with it” One year they resorted to a 25% discount on national tariff to hide the PCT deficit and pretend it is a Trust problem.
          PCTs are statutorily required to live withing their funding – they are not allowed to have deficits. So the Trusts gets lumped with the deficit.

          PCTs are funded under a national capitation formula for their GP-responsible population. They are not funded for people who are not in the registered population baseline. PCTs and budget-holding practices will not pay the hospital for treatment of just anyone llegals and mysterious appearances.
          Never rely on the Guardian or BBC for information, never argue with people who know what they are talking about.

             24 likes

          • Nicked emus says:

            By the look of things I just got my arse handed to me.

            I shall wear my fingers to stumps in Google in an attempt to get to the bottom of it, but in the interim I will possibly temporarily, but almost certainly permanently, concede and retire from this bout chastised.

               6 likes

            • jarwill101 says:

              Goodbye, Nicodemus.

                 4 likes

              • Nicked emus says:

                Oh no, I will be back… Although probably not on this particular topic. (although when you look at the costs involved with PFIs — introduced by the Major government, continued under the last government — they are prohibitive)

                In some cases uncovered by the Daily Telegraph, hospitals were billed by contractors £15,000 to have a door hung, £466 to change a light fitting and £75 for an air freshener.

                But if I am wrong on the funding — and in the absence of proof to the contrary I accept I am — then I am very happy to retract that part of my argument.

                   5 likes

                • chrisH says:

                  You seem to have read the BBCs mind sir!
                  Just been listening to “The Report” on Radio4…no surprise to any of us whose fault it all was.
                  Not Alan Milburn, not Lord Philip Hunt…the Labour monkeys who left their calling cards all over their beloved NHS like one long dirty protest…and CERTAINLY not the fault of Balls, Brown or Blair…how very dare you!
                  Nah-stands to reason then…it was all John Majors fault…for he had begun with ten of these PFIs before poor Labour simply had to give us tenfold, hundredfold more of them…what else could they do…didn`t go on the Public Debt either for some reason-don`t ask! They didn`t!
                  So then-it`s clear-bloody Stephen Dorrell to blame…for XXXX sake-vote Labour…they had nowt to do wiv it!
                  Twas broken when they found it guv-and the BBC are happy to tell us that this was , is and always will be the case…geddit?

                     16 likes

                • Barry says:

                  “But if I am wrong on the funding — and in the absence of proof to the contrary I accept I am — then I am very happy to retract that part of my argument.”

                  Now that’s something you don’t read every day.

                     8 likes

            • Merlin says:

              Despaireth not Nicked emus, we are not above compassion for those in misery or defeat… we await your return and a similar hasty retreat.

                 6 likes

          • dez says:

            LondonCalling,
             
            “wrong, wrong, half right, wrong.
            South London Healthcare Trust is still running on “block contracts”…”
             
            You appear to be misinformed.
             
            SLHT (slightly unfortunate acronym) was on a “block contract” for 2010-2011; but has been operating under a “payment by results” system for the past financial year 2011-2012.
             
            As indicated here:
             

            http://www.hsj.co.uk/hsj-local/acute-trusts/south-london-healthcare-nhs-trust/south-london-healthcare-trust-to-move-back-to-payment-by-results/5028589.article

             
            And confirmed here:
             

            http://www.nhs.uk/Services/UserControls/UploadHandlers/MediaServerHandler.ashx?id=267&t=634771856487666065

             

               0 likes

            • John Anderson says:

              Dez you silly boy

              What has killed the Trust is the onerous costs of PFI. Introduced stupidly but to a small extent under the Major Government, but driven to extremes by Gordon Brown. His whole scam was to keep PFI funding off the £national debt” statistics. Billions and billions of pounds spent under PFI to gove Labour the “credit” for new hospitals and schools.

              I played a small part with a supplier to a PFI scheme – Bromley Hospital My involvement was on the IT side. I have never seen such gold-plating – let’s buy everything in sight and then some more – since I worked in the MoD back in the 1970s.

              PFI was a licence to print money

                 13 likes

      • dez says:

        Merlin,
         
        “…can you provide us with evidence to the contrary of Migration Watch’s findings… can you confirm that immigration is not placing the NHS under any stress?”
         
        The Migration Watch links above are about people on “tourist visas”, and that illegal immigrants may be able to get NHS treatment. Nowhere does it say that legal (or illegal) immigration is placing the NHS under stress.
         
        “Don’t be ridiculous Scott… this is common sense…”
         
        Good grief, the old; “it’s true because it’s true” argument. What are you going to do next? Wheel out the Littlejohn?

           2 likes

        • Merlin says:

          Aye, whatever you say Dez lol. I’m off to bed…

             4 likes

        • Guest Who says:

          ‘the old; “it’s true because it’s true” argument. ‘
          Presumably, if repackaged as comfort in belief that things are ‘got about right’, a whole new standard level kicks in?
          If used by ‘authorised’ persons, of course.

             7 likes

          • johnnythefish says:

            Because the world’s top scientists say it is.

            No, hang on, that’s summat else.

               2 likes

  5. LondonCalling says:

    My better half happens to work for the trust in question and she confirms to me that the Woolwich in particular is flooded with African and “Asian” patients. The maternity service in particular,as the whole world is entiled to “free” NHS birth facilities as it is classified as the same as emergency treatment. Its not free of course, its a over £1,000 in costs to the NHS.
    The AIDS service is over 50% Africans new patients – the old bogus “enrol as a student” wheeze gets you £30,000 a year of drugs, free housing, bring your family over, bills paid.
    Unless you actually work in the service you would have no idea what goes on. Being accused of racism can end your career in the NHS.
    I was in a my South London GP surgery when a couple of Russians breezed in and asked to see a doctor. “Is it an emergency?” asked the receptionist. “Of course” the girl said, smiling sweetly. She knew how to work the system. Everybody does.

       37 likes

    • Merlin says:

      A little off topic but still relevant to the immigration swindle debate: I was enjoying a day off yesterday and was in town tying up loose ends and shopping and so on and I swear I was the only English speaking person in Inverness! I heard NOTHING but Eastern European accents; one family with about 7 kids (the grandparents were there also) were shouting in the street and one of them had a tin of lager in their hands! I’ve never seen so many tracksuits, shell-suits and baseball caps in my life!

         31 likes

      • Roland Deschain says:

        Must be all these tourists come for the Inverness summer!

           9 likes

        • The Highland Rebel says:

          Summer was on a Tuesday this year.

             17 likes

          • John Anderson says:

            For some silly reason I was counting faces the other day while walking though Kingston town centre – a really big shopping zone..

            Whites I assumed were all British – although many could have been eg Eastern European. Non-whites I counted as “from elsewhere” – of whatever generation.

            In this outer London suburb “from elsewhere” were in a clear majority. At about 3pm. And many of them seemed to be sitting around in cafes, going nowhere and doing nothing.

               12 likes

      • Barry says:

        Not four and twenty virgins then?

           3 likes

      • Jeff says:

        You should try south London mate. Vast swathes of our capital city don’t appear to be part of England any more.
        Isn’t diversity wonderful?

           30 likes

        • Merlin says:

          Sorry to hear about that Jeff; it must be upsetting seeing your home (especially an ancient and beautiful city like London) transformed into a multicultural experiment; Dez/Scot/Doinker might call me a racist but I’m not; I don’t mind a few coming here to seek to find a better life through working hard… we however, simply end up with the undesirables in a lot of cases i.e. those who drink, take drugs and claim the bacon roll cheque – the eastern Europeans also seem to get social housing pretty damn quick as well whereas many indigenous/locals seem to be pointed in the direction of long waiting lists and unaffordable rent under unscrupulous landlords. We are being used effectively as an economic sponge,but what can we do when locked inside Europe??

             16 likes

      • Backwoodsman says:

        Merlin, interested in why your fine city is attracting the hordes ?
        Somewhere like Peterborough is understandable, because of the availability of field work, but why Inverness ?

           6 likes

        • Merlin says:

          It’s a question a great many of ask everyday mate… There are loads up here, I mean loads! I know for a fact that they are employed en masse in the fish processing factories, elderly care homes and in the fields farm labouring – every time I go in town there seems to be even more!

             8 likes

  6. Leftie-Loather says:

    The other day I needed to go to my local NHS hospital but not wanting to sit there for 4 hours, I put on my blue jacket and pinned on it a plastic ID card saying ‘UK BORDER & IMMIGRATION AGENCY’ that i’d made off the Internet.
    When I went up the hospital, I noticed 3/4 of the people got up and left, as if they’d suddenly decided they weren’t that sick after all. Cut 3 hours off my waiting time. Badge worked a fuckin treat!
    Also works at supermarkets. Saves me hours.
    At the laundry, within two minutes of me being there, I get my choice of any machine, most still running!
    If you make a badge like i’ve got though, don’t wear it at McDonald’s….The whole staff can tend to disappear and you don’t get your order!
    Also….never wear it while trying to get a taxi!

       52 likes

    • Ian Hills says:

      Good for you mate. Wear it to Heathrow Airport and the “security” personnel will disappear too.

         24 likes

    • ROBERT BROWN says:

      I submitted this very same ditty to this site over a year ago after my Australian cousin e-mailed it to me, thought it was brilliant. Some people objected though, still, glad to see it still doing the rounds, and i’ll bet it would ‘clear’ the way in certain areas!

         12 likes

    • Merlin says:

      LOL Brilliant! I wouldn’t recommend wearing one to the pub on Saturday night up here either – if, that is you wanna get lucky! All the good lookers are bloody Polish!

         8 likes

    • John Anderson says:

      Brilliant ! Where do we find the badge ?

      At my local Pizza joint I was chatting to the normally-miserable Pakistani counterhand tonight. He told me how he has been steadily working through a degree course then a post-grad diploma and is moving on to an M Sc next year. “Where can you do all that when you are only 20 ?” – he answered some college I had never heard of. “University of Balham” or some such crap.

      I would like to pop in with your badge some time !

         17 likes

      • deegee says:

        Please explain what is the problem here.

        Upward mobility?
        Unemployment for graduates?
        Qualification inflation?
        Too many colleges or too many degrees leading to devaluation of qualifications?
        Education for the working class?
        The fees system in higher education?
        Skill migration?

        All are serious issues. I just can’t see which ones you are referencing.

           0 likes

      • Leftie-Loather says:

        Here, John… http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Zt8zOpe6BII/TmISwE_ovWI/AAAAAAAACrI/VAQQaiePrnQ/s320/UK%2BBorder%2B%2526%2BImmigration%2BAgency.jpg …Get it printed off and laminated and everything and then….WEAR WITH PRIDE!
        Make some for all your friends as well.

           5 likes

        • Nicked emus says:

          I realize this is all a joke, but just in case anyone is thinking of doing this for real…

          It is an offense under the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005 as amended by the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 to impersonate a customs or immigration officer for which you can get just shy of a year in the nick.

          Tthink how much the internet would miss your contributions on this blog.

             1 likes

          • Reed says:

            To what degree must you ‘impersonate’ officialdom. I’d assume some sort of replica uniform would be required. Surely if you’ve just pinned on a small badge, and not an accurate one, they wouldn’t be able to pin anything else on you.

               4 likes

            • Nicked emus says:

              Honestly I have no idea — but given the propensity for officials to display absolutely no sense of humour…

              I read a story about a guy who was in civilian clothes and displayed a warrant card to which he was not entitled; he was done under the act.

                 3 likes

  7. Durotrigan says:

    Did anyone catch this morning’s ‘Crossing Continents’ on Radio 4 which on this occasion happened to be doing a PR job for the millions of illegal immigrants in Greece? The Turks, unsurprisingly, seem rather happy to let Afghans, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc pass through their country to Greece, ferried across the River Evros by not only local Turks, but everyone’s ‘friend’ the near-ubiquitous illiterate Roma: http://durotrigan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/crossing-continents-greeces-borderline.html

       9 likes

  8. chrisH says:

    Only once in recent history have the liberal elite rose up in fury at the exposing of a crisis in health/women/children…it” wasn`t fair”, it “was a waste of resources” and “was a distraction from the big issues”-presumably whether the shredders used to dispose of Haringeys glowing reports should be converted to wind power or not.

    Yes folks-I speak of the abortion scandal earlier this year. The Telegraph was able to show that doctors were just photocopying consent for any abortions as if they had actually met the women and interviewed them-of course they hadn`t…just routine aborting as required by the wimmins lobby, the BBC/Guardian/OPT..as well as eugenicists, Nazis, Commies-but “that`s off topic” as ever.

    Anyhoo-a concluding report yesterday found the nine hospitals/ abortion clinics guilty as charged…and yet, not a peep from the chattering classes…not even a” lessons will be learned “soundbite…not a Kings Fund/Save our NHS lobby on the media to denounce or even critique the findings.
    Ah, the sight of soggy tumbleweed blowing through the minds of Beeboids everywhere….it`s as if children don`t matter until they can watch cBBBC eh?…presumably not vulnerable enough for Gitta Sereny to make money from when she stalked the earth.

       18 likes

    • Teddy Bear says:

      Excellent article on BBC hypocrisy and bias by Melanie McDonagh in the Spectator.
      A government watchdog did an investigation into 14 NHS trusts and found that they were breaking the law in the way they conducted abortions.

      So what does the BBC focus on?

      The £1m cost of the investigation by the Conservative government.
      Now if it was something that concerned the BBC, like purging Britain of Murdoch with the Leveson inquiry, you can be sure the BBC wouldn’t be worrying about things like that. Not to mention the BBC spending far more than that itself on suppressing the Balen Report.

      The skewed priorities of the BBC’s abortion investigation story

         1 likes

  9. Daniel Smith says:

    BBC clearly crestfallen over the John Terry acquittal. A sombre Garth Crooks was summoned to explain how clever Terry’s defense team was. No one was asked the question: ‘why was this Orwellian trial ever brought in the first place?’ No doubt the get-the-white-working-class project will continue unabashed with enthusiastic BBC support.

       15 likes

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