NEGATIVE?

The BBC has done everything possible to relegate focus on the ongoing meltdown of their beloved eurozone but they are quick out of the traps this morning to join in the faux celebration now that the “leaders” have come up with a brand new package that solves all fiscal problems. I was entertained by this interview with Sir John Gieve, former deputy governor of the Bank of England, as he considers whether changes to the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) will prevent further crises. Sir John, a mild mannered chap, had the temerity to suggest that this is a short term fix that may not solve the problems that afflict Greece et al.  Sarah Montague instantly suggests he is being “negative” ensuring he instantly puts a more positive spin on the ludicrous antics of Merkel, Sarkozy and co. It is perfectly obvious that a Nation mired in debt will not recover from such debt be giving it even more debt and yet this is the big idea of the Eurocrats keep pushing and the BBC keeps propagandising.

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47 Responses to NEGATIVE?

  1. Martin says:

    I just thought it funny that Ed Testes was allowed to spin the lie that it was them who kept us out of the Euro. What a joke.

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  2. Roland Deschain says:

    It is perfectly obvious that a Nation mired in debt will not recover from such debt be giving it even more debt

    Perfectly obvious to you and I and most who read this site, David.  Sadly not so to an alarming number of people who should know better, including our own Chancellor, laughingly described as “Eurosceptic” by Stephanie Flanders on last night’s 10 O’Clock News.

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    • stevefb says:

      As Adrian Hilton wrote in “The Principality and Power of Europe”.

      Europe should become a federal superstate, into which all ancient nations would be fused…  For this to be achieved without the peoples of Europe realising what was happening, the plan was to be accomplished in successive steps. Each was to be disguised as having an economic purpose, but all, taken together, would inevitably and irreversibly lead to federation“.

      If we are not vigilant, this will not end well. 

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  3. dave s says:

    Nobody has ever explained how a single currency can be held to possess the same value in say , a Greek village, a Donegal village and in the city of Stuttgart and ever be expected to work.
    It was always the ultimate delusion of fantasy politicians.
    Unreal it was and is and now reality will put an end to it.
    The comparison with the US $ is absurd. The dollar spread west as America expanded. The people took their currency with them. It was not imposed upon them.

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    • Simon Walker says:

      You miss the point. The Euro was never really an attempt to achieve a common currency, it simply was never going to work – any intelligent person could see that (omit BBC).  The logical outcome was going to be one of two things; sweetness and light in which case all would forget their evil nationalistic undertones and fuze together into one happy euro political empire, or, a complete disaster is which case the rish few would save the impoverished minions and all would fuze together in one unhappy euro political empire.  OK so we got the latter, does Brussels care?  I think not.

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  4. john says:

    There is an advert currently being aired on TV from the Turkish Investment Board which comes over more like a threat than an invitation.
    No doubt the Beeboids who watch other channels to see what’s going on in the real world will be reminded that Turkey could be an exciting addition to the success story that is the eurozone.
    After all, Pweston and Flwanders have been predicting on behalf of the BBC that Greece’s financial wowes are but a mere hiccup, so why keep Turkey waiting ?
    I’ll tell you why :
    My understanding is that the German tax payer couldn’t care less what the BBC propagates about the eurozone because they have had enough of this lunacy.
    Indeed, when an ex- Greek Financial Minister said on Sky (not the BBC obviously) “Don’t help us by lending us any more money – we’ll only spend it !”, it beggars belief that the BBC continue with their own agenda and rarely even question the eurozone’s shortcomings.

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  5. Umbongo says:

    “It is perfectly obvious that a Nation mired in debt will not recover from such debt be giving it even more debt”

    True but that’s not really the point is it?  The point, as the BBC experts resolutely downplay is that this “solution” involves a political deal whereby Germany is given the keys to the kingdom of a European nation state in return for coughing up/guaranteeing untold trillions to the failed (economic) states of southern Europe and Ireland.  They’d better get on with it before the German taxpayers wake up.

    On other matters, the BBC reports triumphantly the “recovery” in stock markets world-wide consequent on this deal or, rather, the announcement of this deal.  I don’t think a deal has actually been finalised although they have agreed on the communique.

    Of course, what the BBC experts don’t say (probably because they have no idea – let alone any interest in – the mechanics of stock markets) the stock market “recovery” is not a matter of massive sales/purchases consequent on news of a Greater Germany.  The market uptick is a reflection of dealers increasing the price at which they’re prepared to deal which feeds into the various indices.  When the paucity of deals at the new price becomes obvious or, worse for the dealers, holders sell their stock to or through the dealers at the new price, the dealers will cut the price and the market will “fall”.  In the long run (ie not overnight) stock markets reflect the reality the underlying worth of the stuff being traded – an overnight rise or fall means precisely nothing.

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    • Cassandra King says:

      Exactly right, the stock markets are not hanging on waiting for every deal the EU makes or does not make, if anything any positive reaction would come from the currency trading floors not from the stock markets.

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    • Martin says:

      Germany couldn’t conquer Grece with tanks, but it can with German backed Euro’s!

      If Hitler could see it he’d have a smile on his face for sure.

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    • Derek Buxton says:

      Thank you for that explanation Umbongo, I was surprised when I read of the rise on the Stock Markets, especially the banks.  They I believe are having to take part in the bail out.  Strange similarity to “sub prime mortgages”, government, Brussels, makes you lend to those who cannot repay the dept.  That worked well????

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    • David Preiser (USA) says:

      Well put, Umbongo.  Like I said yesterday, the BBC is being serially misleading about what’s going on here.  Somebody’s going to make a profit of the debt they’re about to buy at a reduced rate, but that’s about it.  Funny how the Beeboid experts conveniently forget that the market is driven more by speculation than reality in these things when it involves something that doesn’t help their agenda.  When they want to dismiss it, they tell us it’s speculators.  But when they have an agenda, it’s a positive sign.

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    • NotaSheep says:

      Please don’t confuse the BBC with how the markets work. They are arts graduates; they don’t have to understand, they feeeeeel

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  6. Cassandra King says:

    The beneficial crisis? The only way to escape the induced crisis is…closer integration…who woulda thunk it. The BBC sees only ood news because the EU needs them to see only good news, after all their aims and objectives and narratives are one and the same. The BBC with dreams of evolving into the EUBC, the sole voice of the newest comrade on the block.

    Everything is wonderful now, The EU is not only saved by the EU it is stronger than ever before, the markets are dancing with sheer exultation, its good news all the way…apart from the fact all the stitch up has done is screw bondholders, well those nasty capitalist vermin deserve all they get eh? Well the pension industry holds billions in those bonds, thats our pensions up the creek, our banks which hold whats left of our savings are up the creek and those investments we were hoping might see us through our grey nightmare might just give us back what we put in.

    But hey comrades, look at the bright side, closer EU integration with the EU cranking up its supra national governance over the regions, the EU stands ready to finance its ambitions with the regions money and soon it will be able to siphon off as much as it needs through direct taxation and believe you me the EU is hungry for money. Obviously the gigantic debts remain in the feckless southern PIIGS economies so the Northern taxpayer will now be fleeced for decades to finance the PIIGS tax cheats, bent politicians, hyper generous state parasites and hundreds of vanity projects.

    The can has been kicked down the road in favour of short termism and power plays, the final collapse getting bigger and bigger as the months pass, but that is the aim that the BBC are not going to talk about, the EU is using the threat of disaster as a ratchet binding states ever closer through fear. If we just had all the powers we need we could save you. After all, when things are going well and the nation states thrive then who needs the EU project? These euroslime would be happy to destroy the entire European economy as long as they can end up in control of the wreakage.

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    • Span Ows says:

      Cassandra:

      “These euroslime would be happy to destroy the entire European economy as long as they can end up in control of the wreakage.”

      Not only that…any means are acceptable as long as the result is UNITED  – wreckage or not.

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    • Derek Buxton says:

      Cassandra King,
      I thought the BBC had morphed into the EUBC!

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    • David Preiser (USA) says:

      The can has been kicked down the road in favour of short termism and power plays, the final collapse getting bigger and bigger as the months pass, but that is the aim that the BBC are not going to talk about,

      Cassie, you have also accurately described what’s going on in the US as well.  And the BBC’s reporting on it.

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  7. cjhartnett says:

    Didn`t even bother to listen to be honest!
    As soon as the piece started with Evan gassing round the water cooler with Flanders I knew there`d be nothing to hear of any worth. 
    Flanders mocking tone of believing what the EU tell them all just shows how cynical they all are-they say this stuff and get paid to just trawl it along. 
    Given their record on predictions, on NI shares and the like…all we`re left with is that the Euro is a great thing if only the private sector would cough up more!
    Sounds like I missed nothing we could not have written or predicted!
    Still DV good enough to bear witness to their death rattle!

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  8. Sres says:

    Work shy Greeks wanting to live like Workaholic Germans, it’s a match made in lunacy.

    My favourite of all the Greek public sector deals is the one with the Greek Forsestry commission, if you worked outdoors you got a bonus added to your salary, genious!  I want a bonus in my pay cheque if I sit at a computer!

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  9. Ben says:

    A similar interview was held at 8.05am on Five Live with Andrew Verity and Lord Lamont.  Lamont was generally cautious, especially pointing out that much of the detail had yet to be agreed. Quite sensible really.

    The subjet rapidly became off-topic for the BBC so Verity switched to accusing Lamont and Major of being the architects of much of these current problems when negotiating the Maastricht Treaty.  Remarkably misinformed, especially as Lamont jumped on it straight away and refused to allow them off the hook, making it quite clear that he personally had been personally responsible for not getting the UK involved in the mess that is the Eurozone.

    They then switched to phone hacking and again Lamont refused to play ball claiming that at the best Millibands attack on the Tories and Cameron was misguided as the worst that Cameron might be accused of was an error of judgement in one particular hiring.

    All in all it was quite an enjoyable interview, especially as the interviewers (Verity and Campbell) were clearly looking for different responses.

    Here’s a link if you want to listen 2hours,  5 mins 30 secs in.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b012krjl

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    • cjhartnett says:

      Thanks for this Ben!
      Utterly astonishing that these two muppets were as ignorant and as badly briefed as this.
      That Lamont was on a phoneline and not in the studio is a classic BBC ploy to avoid “contagion” in its own monoculture field of poppies…for harvesting should the Taliban fail to deliver!
      I blame Alan Partridge for so much of what I see masquerading as “current affairs” and “debate”…he would have done a far better job that Cheech and Chong as evidenced here!

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  10. Demon1001 says:

    The trouble is that if the Euro does go pear-shaped we will suffer economically and just at a time when we can least afford any more setbacks.  However, on the positive side, those pushing hard for a Fourth Reich will have been knocked backwards and the chances of us ever joining a single currency remoter than it’s been for years.

    I would be pleased to see those Big Brother types hit with such a setback, but the world economic fallout will be terrible.  Hopefully, though, losing the restraints may assist an earlier recovery.

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    • Martin says:

      We will suffer because of our banks, but the bottom line is in Germany BMW, Porche etc will carry on just as before.

      The single currency was a mistake and won’t work without full political integration and the EU politicians just know that the proles won’t go for it at the moment.

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  11. Martin says:

    The BBC keep allowing Ed Testes to spout this old line that you need to borrow to grow the economy (he means grow the public sector even more) but if you look at Greece, Portugal and Ireland what exactly are they supposed to grow? None of those three Countries have an industrial base like say Germany, portugal and Greece rely on tourism and there is only so much of that to go around.

    I really wish someone at the BBC would pin the idiot down on this.

    Growing the public sector using borrowed money is what got those Countries into the mess in the first place.

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    • MarkE says:

      Borrowing to grow the parasitic sector didn’t only get Greece and Portugal into a hole; we are in one too.  Having our own currency has mitigated the pain of our excessive debts, and the markets seem to be concentrating on one problem at a time.

      I would guess the UK will come sometime after Italy but before any other big economy (and long before the US which will cobble together some sort of fudge over their spending cap), but the pressure will come.  The real shame is that, while anyone who can count to 11 without taking their shoes off will know the debts were incurred by Brown, the BBC will treat it as wholly Cameron’s fault as teh crisis will happen when he is PM, much as they blame Thatcher for the measures needed to cure the cancer caused by the previous Labour governments. He is far from innocent, as his refusal to cut public spending has done nothing to prevent or even delay the reckoning, but it was not actually Cameron who caused the problem.

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    • Andrew says:

      Balls always makes me laugh with this logic and this was the same dozy argument that Milliabnd tried to offer up as a sound practice when he first became leader.

      So how do both of them square up this approach with the fact that they used the US banking crisis (caused by unsustainable reliance on credit) as an excuse for  to avoid being held responsible for the downturn in the UK (which in turn was based of debt fueled government profiglacy)?

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  12. hippiepooter says:

    DV, Sarah Montague?  Evan Davis?  Easy mistake to make.  Had I been John Gieve I too would have been intimidated by Evan Davis looking like and sounding like Sarah Montague, but I dont think he was intimidated for that or any reason.

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    • cjhartnett says:

      Gieves name comes up in Tom Bowers bookabout the weird and awful Gordon Brown.
      Basically he was yet another of Browns footstools, and so is just the man to tell us all we need to know about where our pensions are!
      The list of charcters reads like a whos who of all the BBCs talking heads and speed dial wonks who are never described as “raving swivel eyed lefties” :”deluded fantasists riding high in the taxpayers money” or ” misfits always on hand to rewrite the constitution so Balls can put it right as he was doing before the oiks spoke”.
      If they`re not set out as Tory…right wing…you`ll know they`ve probably been groomed by Brown and his sickset from 97 to 07.
      We need to consign them to the compost bin of history at any price-fast and for ever!

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  13. London Calling says:

    Wealth-creating Greeks don’t like paying taxes, and prefer to pay for their children’s education and their own health care. In America if you’ve lots of money, England if you’ve got less, and Bulgaria if you have virtually nothing. Anywhere except Greece.

    The EU is lending like you would lend money to a junkie. Its their precious United States of Europe Project that is at stake, and they don’t care how much of your money they waste to preserve it. Greece would be better off exiting the Euro, and so would the Euro. What we have now is something quite unique: a Lose/Lose situation.

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  14. Ben says:

    Not everyone thinks like the BBC.  There’s a great interpretation of the EU statement here:

    http://www.acting-man.com/?p=9082

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  15. David Preiser (USA) says:

    David, it was Evan Davis who told Grieve he was sounding “too negative”.  and the message was received loud and clear.  How pathetic to hear him direct his guest like this.  “Get back on message, please.”

    First, Davis chatted with Stephanie ‘Two Eds’ Flanders about this.  Flanders, of course, says that because the first bailout worked, we’re now in a situation where it’s “just plausible” that Greece will be able to pay this new one back.  I laughed out loud at that.  According to ‘Two Eds’, the first bailout actually raised the value of Greek debt by the same percentage it’s now getting reduced, so it’s an improved situation.  And she claims the bailout worked? That’s certainly a new definition of “worked” that I was previously unaware of.  The Greeks are about as likely to be able to pay this back as Mark Mardell is to join the Tea Party movement.

    We can all debate whether or not this or that scheme is going to work, but that’s not even the real point.  The point of contention here is that the BBC is covering this exclusively from the perspective that the Eurozone must be saved, and that it is a net positive for Britain.  No voice is allowed through to suggest that you’d all be better off if it was broken up.  That would lead to more nasty austerity, though, and the Beeboids can’t even being to contemplate such horror.

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  16. Martin says:

    I see the BBC are confused about the bombing in Norway. Jews perhaps? Christians? The Tea Party?

    Just who could it be I wonder? Tune into Sky News to find out.

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    • George R says:

      Yes; and an Islamic jihad murderous bombing in Oslo, will not deflect BBC-NUJ from its continual anti-Murdoch number 1 political priority.

      On the contrary.

      ‘Gates of Vienna’:

      Terror Attack in Central Oslo

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      • Martin says:

        The BBc made it the top story ,but only just they gave it the smallest amount of airtime at 6PM they could get away with and then got back to good old hacking, everyone is bored with it but not the BBC.

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    • David Preiser (USA) says:

      Since we keep hearing that the government building is next to the offices of Norway’s “largest tabloid newspaper”, maybe it was someone angry about Muroch’s phone hacking scandal.

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    • Cassandra King says:

      I suspect those Tibetan Budhists =-O

      This is where you find the BBCs perverted and degenerate version of impartiallity. Those responsible will have a valid point, the killers have been provoked, it the fault of Norway for a list of imagined insults and slights. The people responsible may well turn out to have sought and been granted sanctuary from some fly blown cess pit where islam reigns supreme.

      We can look forward to a massive amount of airtime granted to islamofascist supporters and no airtime to anti islamofascist activists who have been warning and indeed begging European nations to halt the tidal wave of islamic colonists. The BBC would rather blame Norway for its imagined crimes than to lay the blame where it truly lays. The truth is that if there were no hostile islamic colonists there would be no terrorism.

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    • George R says:

      Yes; for Islam Not BBC (INBBC):

      Corriere Della Sera reports (Italian) that the terrorist group Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami has claimed responsibility for the explosion in Oslo with a message on a jihadi forum, blaming the presence of Norway in Afghanistan and ‘insults’ to the prophet Muhammad. ”

      -from ‘Gates of Vienna’ blogsite:Terror Attack in Central Oslo

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    • Span Ows says:

      yep, read 4 reports so far and mention one islamic group or anothe rplus the possible reasons (islamic cleric told where to go etc)…all surprising missing from the world’s biggest and favourite global broadcaster.

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      • David Preiser (USA) says:

        If this turns out to be done by some fringe white group, though, expect there to be massive recriminations and garment-rending regret over how the BBC actually allowed someone to speculate on air that it might have been Mohammedans.  Then next time there’s an incident like this we’ll be back to how it used to be with any speculation about Mohammedans squelched from the start.

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        • My Site (click to edit) says:

          back to how it used to be with any speculation’

          Looking across the morning media, that seems to be the problem: speculation.

          The 24/7 news space needs filling, and when they actually know zippy, they fill it with anything.

          I actually condone a move to being circumspect but, as always, challenge the BBC to be consistent.

          One suspects that, in the aftermath, they will be anything but, especially having been caught up in the moment a bit much with others.

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        • Span Ows says:

          Indeed David. But what’s his name? I know of several nationalities’ terrorists that have names like Mohammed and Khan etc. Ah well, just goes to show, however at 9pm last night Sky, The Guardian and other outlets that I read (all online it must be said) still had the Islamic connection despite police reports of tall blondie etc, plus and an admittal from an Islamic group…that admittal was later withdrawn (which begs the question: can we expect their REAL terrorist outrage sometime soon?)

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  17. London Calling says:

    Despite putting the Oslo bombing as it’s lead item, Murdoch remains stubbornly item 2 (lest we forget) and adds  new Scottish hacking subhead, and Jude Law hack subhead.

    Hack hack hack, we are bored rigid with reading Labour attack dog Tom Watson’s latest accusation on hacking. Going back years, trawling the voicemail of people in the public eye has been standard journalistic practice, according to Piers Morgan, and he should know.

    This is an unrelenting campaign by Labour and it’s sympathisers in the media to unseat Cameron, with the BBC on the bullhorn “One more shove lads!”

    Why for FFS doesn’t Cameron get Chris Patten on the phone and tell him to get off his lardy-arse, put down that glass of BBC claret, and instruct Helen Boaden: “ Helen, my office, now!”

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    • D B says:

      “On the line now we have the Norwegian ambassador to the UK Kim Traavik. Mr Traavik, what do you think about the latest revelations concerning James Murdoch?”

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      • D B says:

        MSNBC: “Were the Norwegian attacks planned by Murdoch to distract attention? Hardball with Michael Smerconish at 7 tonight.”

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        • London Calling says:

          and pie thrower Jonnie Marbles is an agent provocateur, a double agent, employed by Uncle Rupert to discredit the attacks on News International.

          And apparently, according to Tom Watson,  Murdoch Jr was seen on the same bus as someone who once went to a party where a schoolfriend of Lord Levinson’s daughter was also present in the queue for the loo…

          It’s all too pathetic for words. but it follows the model of the last time the Guardian Axis of the Left used the repetition of the word “sleaze” to sway the course of a general election.

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  18. Hugh says:

    ‘Why for FFS doesn’t Cameron get Chris Patten on the phone and tell him to get off his lardy-arse … .’

    Because he’s spineless. The sooner he’s replaced, the better.

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